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back to article Phone insurance firm reveals Sharia rules policy

Been searching for ethical mobile phone insurance, based on Sharia rules? Well stop, because FoneShield UK has launched just such a product, though you may find yourself splitting hairs over what "ethical" actually means. Sharia rules don't allow money to be made from interest, as well as forbidding investment in specific …

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Silver badge

the first rule of insurance is ...

... never insure against a loss that you can afford to bear yourself. If you can't afford to replace your house if it burns down, then home insurance is a good idea. If you can't afford to replace your mobile phone, it's probably because you've pissed all your money away on useless extended warranty schemes.

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Overheard?

Halal, I'm on the train

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Flame

Break FSA rules

They must cover that fact that they are you might already be insured in the "Demands and Needs" document as specified by FSA requirements.

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Flame

Sharia rules?

"Sharia rules don't allow money to be made from interest, as well as forbidding investment in specific industries - including porn, weapons, alcohol and pork-related businesses."

So is this why we don't ever see Muslim countries like Iran & Pakistan investing in weapons programs, such as developing nuclear weapons?

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Jay
Unhappy

@ AC

Justified as defence not a business.

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Coat

@Sceptical Bastard

Good one.

Just watch out for the fatwass...

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Anonymous Coward

@AC

"So is this why we don't ever see Muslim countries like Iran & Pakistan investing in weapons programs, such as developing nuclear weapons?"

.. and why some Christian coutries, bound by their religion to "turn the other cheek" have even larger nuclear arsenals.

You have discovered that religions can be hypocritical and self-contradictory -- well done!

You can get extra points if you can find some kind of racist angle to this.

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IT Angle

@AC - "Sharia Rules?"

They're not "investing for profit" - the rules have use the "financial gain" meaning of "investment".

So they can't invest in shares in a company that is involved in those businesses.

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Coat

Does that mean...

if they catch the scrote who steals my phone, they'll cut his hand off?

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Mat

@ AC

--------------- Snip ------------------

So is this why we don't ever see Muslim countries like Iran & Pakistan investing in weapons programs, such as developing nuclear weapons?

--------------- Snip ------------------

Remember kids, as far as Jihad is concerned - Anything goes!

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Linux

Insurance!!!

The only product you will pay for on the idea that you will never need it, and if you do they will usually tell you that you are not elligable (I know spelt wrong) although they had not problem taking your money.

I hate it when I get a new mobile and they state I have to get insurance. Short answer is no. I have insurance on my car, and that is it, I am renting so no house insurance.

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Jobs Halo

@Anonymous Coward : Sharia Rules

Yes, and that's why America, that proclaims "In God We Trust", never knowingly/willingly broke the first (and subsequent) commandment.

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Paris Hilton

@ Tim

Well said. Very eloquently spoken. And a F*ck you to all the haters who seem to think that they have a right to judge! FFS, i wouldn't mind betting that all the people, that commented negatively, would give their eye teeth for the ability to provide for their family as this man can. All you have to do is concentrate and work hard. A concept lost on most of the inhabitants of this green and pleasant land!

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@ j.j. fishtwat

".. and why some Christian coutries, bound by their religion to "turn the other cheek" have even larger nuclear arsenals."

lol, i'm not aware of any 'Christian' countries anywhere in the world. Sure, secular countries with some sort of 'Christian' heritage...but that's about it.

The whole 'Sharia compliant product' market is a scam. Take the 'Sharia' mortgages...they charge interest, but they call it something else, so that's all right. Farce, if not downright dishonest.

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AC 12:44

That's the second time I've seen that non-sequiturial post. The first time I assumed they'd posted a comment in the wrong browser tab - easily done - but apparently their browser tabs are now crossing time as well as space because that was at least three days ago. Anyone know what this AC is on about?

But anyway, £50 to make a claim - brilliant. I thought the point of insurance was that *you* paid *them* once a year or whatever, and *they* paid *you* when disaster struck - not you pay them once a year and then you pay them *again* because a chav nicked your mobile.

Ethical products are a scam. All of them. If they gave you the same return/service/value that other products did they wouldn't need to be labelled "ethical". It's a cover for crap investment management, crap insurance and bananas that are just as crap as any sold in giant plastic buckets by a supermarket.

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Purple lights and whalesong...

Is it just me, or is this website getting a little more eccentric, and possibly slightly surreal, every day?

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@ j.j. fishtwat

"You can get extra points if you can find some kind of racist angle to this."

Don't you mean religionist? As Sharia Law is religion-based, not race-based.

/pedantic

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ian

Alcohol and pork-related business?

Are there companies out there that exist to get pigs drunk?

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Happy

Sharia: no rule says you can't charge interest

Afaik you're not allowed to charge excessive interest, nor are you allowed to offer loans which aren't backed by appropriate tangible assets.

The net result of following principles like this would be no hedge funds, no "derivates" markets, no "sub prime mortgages", no million pound/dollar bonuses for City/WallSt traders, a return to a more cash based economy (rather than credit), no global flows of huge amounts of speculative money, a financial services sector where staff are not rewarded for selling useless and irrelevant financial services simply because they generate lots of up-front commission for the seller (low-cost endowment mortgages with shortfalls, payment protection insurance that never pays out, etc). Maybe even bank managers who know their customers personally, like Captain Mainwaring used to.

Under rules like those the approaching US/UK slump wouldn't have had a chance because there wouldn't have been a stupid credit bubble in the first instance.

Where do I sign, please?

Now, given the above, ask yourself whether there might be a different agenda (than is usually assumed) behind much of the blatant anti-Islam bias in the US/UK media?

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@ElFatbob

There certainly is an officially Christian country - indeed, it is that rare thing, a country where the head of the state church is de facto head of state.

It's also one of the smallest countries in the world - the Vatican State.

By the by, I guess "brand new boxed" only guarantees you a brand-new box- the contents might be refurbished, but that's OK cos the box is new...

Lawyers - Sharia or otherwise - doncha love 'em?

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Dead Vulture

@Ian

Don't forget that many, many restaurants offer dishes with pork in cider or calvados sauces.

Oh, bugger. Now I've thought of that, I'm so hungry I could eat roadkill.

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Anonymous Coward

@BryanB : the head of the state church is de facto head of state.

Ah Britain as well then!

I reckon the Queen and the Pope should hit the cage and fight it out..

@AC >blatant anti-Islam bias in the US/UK media?

Could it be the planes/trains bombing thing rather than because they have some financial issues?

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Joe
Alert

@ Bryan B & ElFatBob

Surely that makes the UK a Christian country? Her Majesty (gawd bless 'er) is the Head of State *and* Supreme Governor of the Church of England. She appoints the leadership of the Church on advice from the Prime Minister, who himself is advised by the Church Commission.

We might no longer be forced into participating in the CofE, but it sounds like most of the head honchos are hearing voices in their heads to me.

All states should be secular if you ask me!

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Go

@Jamie

Jamie, just because you rent a house does not mean no house insurance, it just means that you don't need buildings insurance. I hope that you have home contents insurance!! Else we might all pop round and try and nick your phone :)

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Boffin

Christian countries

US (In God We Trust plastered all around, especially on money and gov agencies), UK (Queenie's head of Church and State) and therefore Canada (Queenie's head of that too, officially), Greece (no separation between church and state), Vatican of course, and I'm probably missing a few.

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Coat

@JonB

My money's on the Pope... no telling what kind of weapons he might have stashed in that hat of his.

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Coat

Alcohol and Pigs

"Don't forget that many, many restaurants offer dishes with pork in cider or calvados sauces."

Yes, it is a very yummy dish. My wife loves to cook it, and it is very tasty.

So, Two points for me! How much did I make in the Stock Market last year?

All of this sounds like "carbon offsets" to me!

Out the door to get in my nice comfy SUV!

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@ Jamie

From bitter experience on both sides of tenancy agreements, I can confidently say that your landlord's insurance doesn't cover anything belonging to you that might be kept in the building. You still need your own contents insurance. Note also that most home contents insurance policies have a limit for the total amount claimed in each category of things (kitchen appliances, computer equipment, power tools, works of art, instruments, sports equipment &c) which may not be as much as you thought. Read the small print carefully.

I thought the religious argument against insurance was that it diminished a person's faith; one who is paying money to mortals for protection against unforeseen events clearly doubts God's ability to come up with the goods if the worst happens.

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Coat

Alcohol and porcine species

Companies aimed at producing alcohol-imbibated pigs? Does the pub facing your local police station qualify?

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Anonymous Coward

Cor blimey mate

IMHO the Muslims are just as deluded as the Christians, their main difference being an absolute dearth of chrome-plated PR and the fact that they're a bit lacking in the happy-clappy Dept.

Now if only they could get Charlton Heston to do them an epic .....

DOH!

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Various

The US is clearly a secular state; the "In God We Trust" motto, is purely an issue of heritage.

I believe there is only one possibility for a "Christian Country" in the sense that Christian values/rules determine the laws of the land as equivalently as Muslim values/rules determine sharia law in countries where that is in place; Vatican City. And, it is possible, even there the laws are not nearly so closely tied to the religion as Sharia is to Islam. If someone knows of anywhere else; I would suggest they post it along with some support for why they believe this.

Additionally, some AC indicated that as far as they knew that the prohibition in Islam against interest is only "excessive" interest: this is not correct, Riba (interest) is forbidden, by the Quran. Additionally contracts are supposed to be devoid of uncertainty; thus even insurance is considered taboo in standard sharia law, however I'm not certain of the origin of this; I believe it is from hadith. Perhaps someone who is Islamic could comment on this?

And finally, and much less interestingly; to those who called for the purchase of "home contents" insurance; if the previous poster (who did not get home owner's insurance, since he does not own a home) is from the US (and likely Canada), then he'd know what you're asking him to acquire as "renter's insurance."

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Coat

@Ian

Yes they are called nightclubs "Are there companies out there that exist to get pigs drunk?"

To late for Police Pub jokes sorry

Mine's the one without the "One God stickers"

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@ A J Stiles BSc

Like my name?

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Jim
Stop

Re @Jamie

WTF are you talking about? When did contents insurance become compulsory?

Remember, you only need to insure that which you would miss and can not afford to replace. That usually covers building and vehicle insurance, contents insurance is rarely worth the cost. I work for an insurer and even with a nice discount I still don't bother with contents insurance, neither does my boss.

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Pirate

> Joe

"Surely that makes the UK a Christian country? Her Majesty (gawd bless 'er) "

You ought to know that the country is run by a cabal of Victorian ladies known as the Witches of Chiswick whose aim is to suppress development and reduce our technical abilities to near zero. It must be true - Hugo Rune told me so.

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Alert

There is no country in world that applies Sharia properly

FYI all, it is a well known fact among many active Muslims and Islamic law specialists that there is not a single government or country in the world that truly conforms to islamic principles or sharia. For a start Islam mandates that the rulers are fairly elected (shoora), that there is an independent judiciary with a supreme court which has the power to hold the executive, the state and thier powers to account and impeach them (qadi muthalim), these 2 principles alone (there are many more) would rule out most Muslim governments. Also the only style of government that iis truly recognised by Sharia law (embodying the mentioned principles) is a Caliphate - look it up in wikipedia.

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Bronze badge

Sharia: no rule says you can't charge interest

... Yes it does say that. You can't charge people money just for borrowing money.

You can't charge them more money for not being able to pay. You can't charge them money even if they lost the lot trying to set up a Web business.

But you can invest in a business, you can give credit, you don't need to use cash, and you can speculate on options if you want to. You can buy grain now and sell it later (or if you can't, it's because of some other rule about grain).

The general rule is that you have to put your own arse on the line. You have to share any risk your client is taking. So you can borrow money to speculate, and you can lend money to speculate, but you can't lend money for (risk-free) interest, then repossess the house after he has lost his job and can't make the house payments.

You also can't buy those particular options that purport to strip off risk, like bonds but with better return, but that's a technicality -- those are only for suckers anyway.

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Flame

@Spleen

"Ethical products are a scam. All of them. If they gave you the same return/service/value that other products did they wouldn't need to be labelled "ethical"."

WRONG! They need to be labelled "ethical" because they don't involve themselves in questionably organisations just to maximise profit. That does not necessarly mean either:

b] The product is inferior

or

b] The product is more expensive (although it often is - with good reason!)

"It's a cover"

I don't think it is responsible behaviour for one country to continue fuelling its ecomomic growth out of the suffering of others; otherwise global capitalism just becomes a conveniently deniably proxy for old fashioned imperial slavery, surely?

If ethical business is such a bad idea, why don't we just do away with unions and employment / investment law altogether?

Rant over.

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@ Ian

Police social clubs?

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Thumb Up

FoneShield Insurance

I wanted to clarify points raised in your article regarding FoneShield . Regarding the statement;

'While the insurance itself might only cost you £43 a year (that was the quote we got), you'll have to cough up to another £50 each time you make a claim, and yet another £50 max if you want to borrow a phone while your one is being fixed, according to the terms and conditions'

The first correction to this is that the Excess fee charged is 'UPTO' £50, and depends on handset value. So cheaper handsets will have a much lower fee. ..as low as £20 in some cases and on average £30.

Secondly , a loan phone will incur a deposit, 'UPTO £50' but this is then returned or 'off-set' against an excess fee... so NO Double payments. #And furthermore, few instances ever require a loan phone, as replacements are made promptly.

Thirdly, - and referring to another point made in the article - In nearly 99% of the cases, a NEW, BOXED Handset is provided as a replaced, either an exact version or an agreed alternative . Refurbs are a very rare situation and agreed before hand with customers.

I hope this and an earlier conversation with Bill has clarified this matter and of course , i am sure the terms and conditions will be revised to reflect more clarity in this matter.

Regarding other comments on this site relating to ethical insurance, we believe that you might find the Sharia 'Takaful' approach will be beneficial to all, because it operates on a 'mutual' and 'co-operative' basis, - which is how insurance companies use to operate in their earlier days , and the benefit of this approach is that it could also means profits can be returned to the insured.

In addition, there is a careful and responsible approach to investments that will not harm society or the environment, it makes for a far better for anyone looking for peace of mind. More details of the new product will be available online soon.

Thank you for your interest and comments ;)

Regs,

- c/o Foneshield

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Silver badge

In god we trust

"The US is clearly a secular state; the "In God We Trust" motto, is purely an issue of heritage."

Sure. And using the Qran as a reference for legislation in "islamic" countries is just an issue of heritage.

A state is characterised by it's government (including Gov agencies), judiciary, legislative powers, and currency. All of them areexhibit this "in god we trust" on every occasion. So, sure, when it's you it's secular and OK, but when it's someone else with a different religion, it's nasty and anti-democratic. How typically American.

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Happy

Sharia insurance?

It does sound like another money grabing idea but hey are't we all like that if we are given half the chance?while we are here hating them,this company was the first to introduce it and will be making money,good luck to them.

I don't see anything wrong with it.if they are compliant with sharia law and not invest money on alcohol,weapon and porn but how do we know,probably the owner of this company is sitting in a pub reading this right now:-)

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