The Oregon man who was born a woman, had his breasts removed as part of a gender reassignment but retained his female reproductive organs and then got up the duff, much to the amazement of just about everyone, will prove he's pregnant by flashing some ultrasound scan proof at Oprah Winfrey on Thursday. Thomas Beatie, of Bend, is …
Only in 'Murcca...
The dateline on this story is 2nd April
I hope it's a day late but if it's true, it beggars belief.
Why on Earth ?
Now that sounds as a shock !!!
Sorry - but that person is not male
I don't care what "gender reassignment" the person has undergone - she has female chromosomes and the fact that she is pregnant kinda defines the person as female.
It's all done.....
In the best possible taste !
How is this possible?
Well it's kind of obvious really... He is a she. No amount of snipping and chopping turns a girl into a guy or visa versa. Therefore their story is more "Woman is pregnant". Hardly a shock story.
Did he really
come from Bend?
this guy is just plain greedy.
I bet he is not looking forward to the delivery.
If the law supposes that… the law is....
So this is a case of:
"Confused woman gets pregnant after irrelevant surgery/legalities"?
They're going on Oprah?
What the fuck is wrong with people?
darn, i saw the title and assumed she'd pissed him off so he just wanted to smash her over the head with an ultrasound machine.... think it's pub o'clock
How is it possible?
Because she's a woman!
FFS legally she could be a Klingon but that won't change what she i!
'Hit' is a rather misleading verb to use in this context. Either of the possibe scenarios in my head were way more exciting than reality.
Despite her best efforts, she's a woman, she has a womb, she can get pregnant.
*That's* how it's possible.
You guys seem to think that this biology stuff is difficult. Or that this is in anyway worthy of being a news item.
(Paris, cos she taught me all I know about laydeeez)
What is the news exactly?
Someone was born with woman's bits
They have not had their woman's bits removed
They got pregnant.
Happened to my mum, so where's the story?
Re: They're going on Oprah?
Come on, it could be Jerry. Or Ricki. Or Montel.
We've done this one before (lots of interesting and incisive comments on there too). Should have been a candidate for standard comments. Feel free.
1) How many times? It's a woman, not a man, and for some reason I can't quite pinpoint the fact that she is trying to make everyone believe she's a bloke when she's not makes me incandescently angry.
2) Gender reassignment is a complex issue and no one undergoes the process lightly. Give them a break.
3) Why is this news?
Paris, because she looks a bit mannish doesn't she, really, in a weird way
4) I always suspected Oprah was born with 'a bit extra'
Mines the unisex one
Innie not Outie
If you have an innie down below and not an outie then you are female. And as stated above gender is decided by chromosomes so if it is xx then it is not a man giving birth. He may be psychologically speaking a man, but under definition of sex biologically speaking he is actually a woman.
I'm with the genetics...
on this one.
SHE is a WOMAN.
"Gender reassignment is a complex issue and no one undergoes the process lightly. Give them a break."
And going on "Oprah" makes them (Where did the 'they' come from anyhoo) liable for a 'break'
It makes them an even bigger target.
This whole thing is really weird and sick.
As previously said "Only in America".
They're not doing anyone any harm so why is how he identifies himself so important to some people? He could say "I'm a pregnant llama" and it still wouldn't make any difference in your life.
Get over it and wish them a successful pregnancy and a healthy child.
Raising a kid is expensive. Hope they make a ton of money off the gawping yokels.
The penguin because it's cute and cuddly and suitable for a child.
Oh no, not again
It's déja vu all over again Boo Boo! I thought we had already done this one to death a few days ago, the most incisive comment for me being "If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck".
Now if Oprah decided to interview that bloke from Ohio who got caught making sweet furniture love to his picnic table four times in one and a half hours, that would be worth seeing.
Paris, because despite Ms Bee's comment above, she's 110% woman. Although I must admit that if I ever did meet her I would be tempted to ask her if she's got any Scotsman in her just so, when she said no, I could follow up with the line "Aye, well, would you like some then". It's never worked for me yet, but here's hoping.
Man != Male
Just because he's Female doesn't mean he's not a man. I bet that if you met him in the street (pre or post pregnancy) you wouldn't know any differently. After all, apart from the dangly bits, what actually makes a male a man? Oh, yeah, it's their outlook, attitude, and such like on life. The body is a very important secondary part of the psycology.
Personally I hope that the pregnancy goes well, and that they both have a lovely child.
Standard Comment #1 please.
Justification XX = female, XY = male
Re: <no title>
Better get these pearls of wisdom and emeralds of tolerance in quick, folks, because I have a feeling this thread is not long for this world.
It's a WOMAN ffs!
I'm tired of people saying they are another sex when quite clearly their genetic structure says otherwise, unless someone has come up with some new gene therapy I've not heard about yet...?
I believe a bloke in a dress once said to us: 'Let he (she?) who is without sin, cast the first stone.' Probably relevant here.
Linux ducky because we don't know what sex it is either.
@ Man != Male
"Just because he's Female doesn't mean he's not a man"
YES IT DOES!
Genetically 'He' will ALWAYS BE FEMALE.
AFAIK there is NO medical procedure that will endow this person with fully functional testicles, capable of producing sperm bearing 'his' half of the chromosome pairings. SHE is bearing a child due solely to the fact that HER reproductive organs were never removed.
On a lighter note, I anticipate that higher than average therapy bills will be incurred by all parties concerned.
Re: @ Man != Male
I hope everyone appreciates the sheer force of will it is taking for me not to weigh in.
But, seriously, can all the hopper-up-and-downers explain exactly why they are so incensed? Do they even really know? And please don't pretend it's because you care about the future of the child.
Tsk, that's torn it. Next thing you know I will be eating chocolate.
It's a woman. It's a woman with serious mental issues. It's a woman with serious mental issues who happens to have had rather a lot of elective cosmetic surgery.
It's a woman with serious mental issues who happens to have had rather a lot of elective cosmetic surgery and is pregnant.
Come on, ffs... if I believed with all my being that I was a sheep, and had surgery to make me look like a sheep... that doesn't actually MAKE me a sheep!
IT is the inalienable right ...
It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
But... you can't have babies.
Don't you oppress me.
I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
"But, seriously, can all the hopper-up-and-downers explain exactly why they are so incensed? Do they even really know? And please don't pretend it's because you care about the future of the child."
Go Sarah Go! Looking forward to some answers.
RE: Man != Male
"I bet that if you met him in the street (pre or post pregnancy) you wouldn't know any differently."
You couldn't even tell if he was in the maternity ward pushing a human being out of his penis... oh wait... ouch!
<standard_comment id="2">Gender reassignment is a complex issue and no one undergoes the process lightly. Give them a break. </standard_comment>
A little compassion is given - for I fear Sarah Bee is losing faith in the El Reg readership. :)
I also choose the omni-gendered tux icon... as he/she must have been through this sort of decision too....
It's not always that simple
To all the self-proclaimed geneticists posting, if you knew more about embryonic/fetal development, you might realize there is more to gender than XX vs XY (nevermind how you guys would describe Turner's Syndrome i.e., XO) The presence of a Y chromosome is not solely what makes one male. The Y chromosome triggers the production of hormones during gestation, which in turn lead to what we typically think of as male offspring. However, if you remove those signals from the mix (in the case of an XY) or add them (in the case of XX) - things are no longer so clear cut. And this does happen outside the laboratory, in utero, for a variety of reasons.
"Get over it"
Is it so smegging hard to accept that other people are different than you?
What harm have these people ever done to you?
I echo Sarah Bee:
Can you please explain why your are so incensed over this?
A lot of people seem to be confusing biological sex with gender.
Gender, e.g. what it is "to be a [real] man" or to "be a [real] women" is a social construct. Some cultures have a 3rd gender, for example. Anyone can see how the concept of mascalinity & feminitiy has changed within W.european culture in the last 60 years or so.
Quite a few people also seem to have been skiving from biology lessens at school too. People can have YY chromosone combination (e.g. Kray twins) as well as XX and XY. Remember also that, technically every foetus starts with XX (bilogically female), and ~50% *mutate* into XY later during gestation...
There's also a certain % of people born heamaphrodite (innie AND an outie to use a previous poster's terminology) - though normally the effin` doctor will perform a quick bit of surgery to "fix" this, often without telling the parents...
It's news because it's an unusual situation, also that American culture is generally extremely conservative and there's a scandal aspect. Going on Oprah, well, I hope they're getting paid enougth to pay for the kid's education later...
dervheid: "I'm with the genetics... "
Yeah, there was a bunch of people in Germany a few decades ago who were big into genetic determinsm too...
a voice of sanity at last.
"serious mental issues"....?
only for going on oprah.
why don't you all calm down.
Ah, Sarah! Chocolate!
I draw your attention to an item in today's Indie (Cookinu Up a Storm), where if you put chocolate in your mouth but pinch your nose, you don't taste anything cos chocolate is a flavour not a taste.
And vice versa with salt.
It may be a belated april fool, but if you're going to experiment with choccies perhaps you could do some research and do an item.
Especially as we (the loyal El Reg readership) NEED TO KNOW...
where did you learn biology?
a Woman creates X only cells in her ovaries and a man creates X & Y cells in his testes
when the two meet you either get XX which is Female or XY that is Male
Re: Ah, Sarah! Chocolate!
I just did it with an authentic New Zealand Pineapple Chump. It appears to be true.
And now I feel slightly nauseated.
YY Chromosome my ass!!!!
Re: It's a WOMAN ffs!
Your tired? I was not exactly aware that this person calling themselves a man was putting any particular burden upon you. Unless you are singly responsible for maintaining the official sex of everyone in the world. Oh that's right your not, its none of your business what someone wishes to be called. Are you people channelling Bernard Manning from beyond the grave?
Whats that? Your not a racialist!? Just because it does not have a liberation movement yet does not make it fair game for you morons.
It's not gender that matters but species, Thomas is quite obviously a seahorse.
"To all the self-proclaimed geneticists posting, if you knew more about embryonic/fetal development, you might realize there is more to gender than XX vs XY (nevermind how you guys would describe Turner's Syndrome i.e., XO) The presence of a Y chromosome is not solely what makes one male."
As I understood it, there is no known intersex condition that creates a child capable of bearing children as a mother. AIS takes a genetic male and makes him look female, but without ovaries, whereas exposing a genetically female embryo to excessive testosterone in utero causes the development of the ovaries to cease, hence infertility, and an almost-penis to grow.
The fact that this man can conceive shows that the woman who went to the doctor to ask for the operation had no diagnosable physical disorder, which makes it a very grey area indeed.
We're back to that thorny "dysphoria" vs "dysmorphia" debate....
Never mind the genetics
I'm a little confused as to how junior is coming out. Don't they, erm, re-engineer some of the plumbing? I'd be guessing a Caesarean will be the order of the day; however, I'd imagine that there would be significant problems in the event of a miscarriage. Also, aren't hormonal adjustments one of the main things involved in gender reassignment? Could an atypical hormonal balance cause issues in foetal development?
Confused, slightly disturbed and fascinated all at once...
".. can all the hopper-up-and-downers explain exactly why they are so incensed?"
They are jealous - want to get the op too (other direction) but even then they can't get preggies. Didn't you ever wonder why IT geeks have long hair and wimpy muscles? And it's really a give-away when they start to get fat and stop caring about their appearance...
Anonymous because I value my life :-)
And vice versa with salt? So if I put salt up my nose while pinching my tongue, I won't taste the salt?
Re: Never mind the genetics
May I refer you and t'others to the original article and comments thereon
Answers some of that, although yes, the hormone adjustments - good point. I'm sure they're monitoring it all pretty closely.
Ahem, yes I should have written XYY, not YY. (There's also various other uncommon sex chromosome combinations, it's not just XX or XY)
The Y chromosome doesn't take effect until ~week 10 of development IIRC, thus the embryo is at least genderless prior to this point - my "mutate" expression was a Valerie S. inspiried polemic :-) Thanks for the correction though.
@ Sarah Bee
Oy! How come you get FIVE comments in just one story? Yeah, I know ... favouritism cos you're a girl (a real one, we assume).
Also, your comments here are too sensible: stop making sense* because us commentards prefer it when you talk dirty (see comments here:
*copyright Talking Heads
So forget about the fact that the guy is actually a woman inside.
Imagine this kid in high school.
"What? Your dad is really your mom?"
That kid is screwed for life mentally and isn't even born yet.
Ho Hum, Man bites dog I see?
She is a she, genetically and mechanically i.e. got all the right plumbing.
Just because she has had her tits chopped off & calls herself Thomas (or whatever) doesn't make her a bloke.
Therefore, as had been said above, shock horror, woman gets pregnant.
Feminisation/masculinisation can be achieved at a hormone level, regardless what bits you may/may not be packing in yer pants, doesn't suddenly make you a true male/female.
Load of old tosh really.
And regarding the pinch your nose & not taste malarky: Your sense of "taste" is mostly based on smell, get a cold, lose your sense of taste & smell. Yes yes, before anyone says, you do have taste buds on your tounge for sweet/sour etc but thats nowt to do with flavour "taste".