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back to article Toshiba lost $1bn ditching HD DVD, paper claims

How much money has Toshiba lost driving failed high-def disc format HD DVD over the last 12 months? According to one report, a whopping ¥100bn ($998m). Toshiba, not surprisingly, isn't commenting one way or the other on the scale of the loss its HD DVD business was this week alleged by Japanese newspaper Nikkei to be facing. …

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How long until...

...Some moron pipes up with a comment like "Sony lost far more than that on the PS3 and pushing Blu-Ray at a massive loss"?!

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Anonymous Coward

Let's hope the corporations learn from it

I have no sympathy for Toshiba. Why should I? The only disappointments I have is that the losses weren't greater and that Sony will make money out of Blu-ray.

The whole Blu-ray vs HD-DVD thing was a mess right from the outset. This wasn't about technology or two companies each trying to provide the public with innovative high quality products. Two formats made no sense for the consumers or content providers. It was a land grab by two corporations in an attempt to stifle competition over the long term, and then collect as much money as possible in royalties and licensing fees. Toshiba made a bet and they lost. Tough.

Next time consider that if you want consumers to buy your product you are better off not shafting them in an attempt to claim as many rights as possible. HD would much more commonplace today if the consumer had been presented with a single standardised and universally supported product, and both companies could have made much more money. Instead, the companies refused to cooperate because they each thought they could earn more independently. As a result, Tosh has made large losses, but more importantly, so has anyone who bought an HD-DVD player.

I only wish it happened more often that companies lose big time whenever they fuck the customer in the furtherance of their own interests.

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Black Helicopters

@AC

You're right, it was a shameless land grab by 2 companies, but that said, I'd much rather have seen the company that *didn't* illegally install rootkits on millions of PC's win.

Anyone willing to bet that deep in the Blowray spec they haven't granted themselves the right to pwn any computer hardware into which a Blowray device is installed?

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Boffin

RE; Monkey moron

Monkey wrote it:

"...Some moron pipes up with a comment like "Sony lost far more than that on the PS3 and pushing Blu-Ray at a massive loss"?!"

Too funny... the only moron here so far is the one who apparently doesn't even know what he's talking about, namely that Sony is indeed bleeding money to push BD and PS3.

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Stop

LOL DOLLA

Not sure if I got my maths right and conversions right (Using xe.com) but 100,000,000,000.00 is 100 billion Yen right? If so then it's 1,009,540,154.46 USD at current rates?

But then again I failed math :P

Anyhow. SOny and it's BluRay partners have already put pu prices claiming they were making a loss on development costs because of having to compete with HD DVD and BluRay has now gone up in price since the battle ended. Now their real battle is against consumer apathy, DVD (It's good enough with upscaling types) and downloads.

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echoes

Here was the classic example of how multiple formats and "standards" hurts everyone, especially consumers and business. I'm glad it's finally resolved.

So why aren't people learning from this, and putting pressure on Microsoft to stop yet another format war? ODF is already a standard. Why is OOXML being allowed to continue? It's another HD-DVD, but without any of the benefits.

But no. Instead, we see the Reg pushing the war on what they love to call "freetards", we see shills continuing the cry of "more standards is better", and we see Microsoft corrupting yet another public process while ISO management stays bought as they watch the reputation of their organization get flushed down the toilet.

I can only hope that the lesson given by Toshiba and all its pundits is someday learned by those who think that multiple competing standards for the same thing is a good idea. Because it never has been.

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It's a lot more sinister...

.why they've pulled suddenly - they have used HD DVD as a bargaining chip against Sony while fooling every HD DVD buyer they will be behind it for long-long time!

Days after Toshiba pulled the plug on H DVD, suddenly Sony agreed to sell Toshiba the majority of it's Cell plant - you know, the CPU in PS3 which, aside of being a gaming console, the only future-proof (that is Profile v2.0-capable) BD player out there.

Coincidence? Obviously not - these deals aren't done in few days, Toshiba and Sony were in talks for months already and Toshiba obviously used the fooled HD DVD masses to get a better deal with Sony.

Disgusting. Toshiba should be sued for consumer deception - I'm 100% sure internal documents would show they were engaged in these talks for several months, knowing they are ready to drop HD DVD while they were actively denying and marketing it.

This is pure deception, nothing less.

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Re: moron

Actually the comment was about the last few remaining embittered HDDVD owners who are still going on and on, and it was a little tongue in cheek too if we were to have read it properly! I never said Sony and the BR consortium haven't poured stupidly large amounts of money down the drain to get us to buy BR. I might be a moron for various other reasons but at least I don't misinterpret comments just so as I can bash Sony.... (and for the record I was a HDDVD buyer).

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Anonymous Coward

$1bn - not much to Tosh

I'm sure it stings, but this isn't like Tosh are in the red. It's just $1bn less on their massive profits, and remember that HD was just a tiny part of their business.

Regardless, I'm sure Tosh got things out of the development process.

I doubt Tosh really care that much though. As said, companies like this are rivals in one way and yet in bed with the same rivals in other matters. Indeed, not only have Tosh got Sony's Cell production, but Sony merged with NEC who were a prime manufacturer of HD DVD drives.

These companies are laughing at the consumer really.

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Anonymous Coward

@Dick Emery: Fail-head grameharr & Thai-ping tooo

"SOny and it's BluRay partners have already put pu ..."

shan't it be "its" & "up"

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@Anonymous Coward

For any kind of "standard" format to be beneficial for the consumer, it must be royalties FREE. The Hig Def format war is over, Sony(a court proven criminal cartel that should not even be in business) is already talking about jacking up the price of BD player. Sony is a extremly evil company that as no place in the world today.

Too bad the PS3 flop did not take down Sony.

It is thrue peoples have a very short memonry span. As buying a Sony product is financing organise crime!

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Coat

SAD but true...

We the consumer had little to do with it. In reality its a media company (studio's et al) and retailer stitch-up.

Next we will see Bluray players go up in price LOL

"Wot? - That's happening already?"

I would never have guessed.... ;-)

So glad I did not early adopt in this format war.

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Unhappy

Forget that

Oh forget my stupid regional differences post, it's been a long day and I imagined 3 extra zeroes in the forest of them :/

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@ Dick Emery

Just a to clear up the money confusion. I'm guessing you're American? The Register is UK based as far as I'm aware. That will account for the differences in your numbers :) Americans call a 1,000,000,000,000 a billion, over here in the UK we call 1,000,000,000 a billion. I think this will clear up the confusion, you don't have a problem with maths, it's just a regional difference.

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re:Jamie Bunce

the uk billion is 1000,000,000 and has been so for about 20 years.

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Gold badge

Competition is good

Life would be simpler if there was only one OS and computing platform. However the consumer would be ripped off.

The difference in the media world is no one company owns the format. If only the same thing existed in the computing world.

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Boffin

Bloody Standards

Life would be simpler if there was only one - BILLION.

Come to think of it, do Americans also have the same GOOGOL or, indeed, GOOGOLPLEX?

We should be told!

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Blu-Ray sucks

Sony should have lost, i can't stand sony.

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Re:

"Sony is a extremly evil company that as no place in the world today."

Erm, look around naive little boy, 99% of companies are "evil" and want your money and will play every dirty trick & tactic they can to get it. So, Sony really aren't that different.

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@Mectron

You're too funny.. Please.. stop writing now... my sides are splitting

I see that Corporate Business has taken in another lemming. Sony isn't the only business that is evil. In fact, I think that ALL businesses are evil.

But then again, I suppose we do HAVE to pay something for an item that we want. Would be great to be in a trekky world where no one pays anything to anyone.

*removes tongue from cheek*

Anyway, personally i didn't really care who won. But now i have a great door stop for the study.

Well done, Sony, Toshiba, Microsoft, and all who were apart of the 'Format War'. Glad it settled itself right in the end.

(PS3? A flop? Really? wow...)

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Paris Hilton

@philip

just because you dont like a company doesnt make the format/hardware rubbish. you need to grow up and smell the coffee.

paris because even she can smell coffee

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Tom
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@ Levente

"Days after Toshiba pulled the plug on H DVD, suddenly Sony agreed to sell Toshiba the majority of it's Cell plant - you know, the CPU in PS3"

1- the contract was signed well before that date, it was the closing of the deal.

2- the plant builds the old version of the Cell, not the new die-shrunk version in current PS3s.

The Cell used in the current PS3s is made in a different plant, by IBM if I remember correctly. There is no connection between that Sony plant and Blu-ray.

I expect Toshiba didn't have much choice about killing HD DVD. Once WB pulled out I'm sure the major stock holders viewed selling HD DVD players below cost, without a good chance of "winning" as giving away 'their' money. When Toshiba took HD DVD out back and shot it the stock price went up.

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Coat

Long vs short scale RE: Tony Trolle & Jamie Bunce

According to Wikipedia - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales - most countries of the world use the apparently more logical *long scale* (new terms is always 1,000,000x greater) which UK used until 1974 when, for whatever reason, they have switched to the US-styled *short scale* (only 1,000x greater).

Problem with short scale is not only very few countries actually use it - mostly English-speaking countries - but also its shortness: people barely know anything above trillion. Ask anyone here (US) on the street to describe 10^19 and you'll see people won't have a clue how to call it. Ask anyone in EU and most people will say trillion...

... however I'm for freedom - everybody has the right to make its own life more miserable the way he sees to fit, for example with extra conversions... but do you want to guess why Wall Street dropped the 18th century (aka old British system) and adopted decimals (aka 20th century) in late 2000? ;)

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Re: Alex

"(PS3? A flop? Really? wow...)"

Ummm, yeah, it IS - it might be news for you - how about reading a bit? - but actually it's old news: Sony really ****d up this time, PS3 is biggest flop in modern console finance history, left waaaay behind by both of its competitors and even home, in Japan where it's getting a horrible beating from Nintendo's Wii.

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@ Lev

.. Think the term, late starter comes to mind :o)

Reading a bit? Why certainly, i have been for the last 3 decades. Nothing has said "PS3 is the biggest flop in console history". Nope, not unless it's been written by someone who doesn't like it. Personally, I think it's doing well considering. It started later, yes. It doesn't have the same amount of games as per the XBox, yes. But then anything that has started late will not have the desired fan-base. It's a steady seller, even now (oh, I think you'll find it is).

Maybe one of the last Next gens released, but one of the most advanced next gens released.

Maybe you should read a little.. :op

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@Levente Szileszky

PS3 has actually started outselling the 360 in some months, and hasn't been out nearly as long, etc etc. It's also been the fastest selling of the PlayStations, and you can hardly call the PSX or PS2 a failure now can you?

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