back to article Home Sec: British rings to be tightened against intrusion

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith yesterday announced the hiring of 39 new policemen for border-protection duties. "With this crucial police support, alongside tougher checks at our border, and the approaching roll out of ID cards for foreign nationals, there will be a triple ring of security around Britain," Smith said. According to …

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Enhanced, police-like powers

Oh great! If this follows form, "enhanced" will mean "un-accountable".

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Coat

Pedal faster, guys

Well, with 12,429km of coastline to cover, that means each of the existing 3000 now has 4090 metres to patrol instead of 4143. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, but I do hope they've got decent bikes...

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Anonymous Coward

Britain the most violent country in Europe

Britain is the most violent country in Europe by a factor of 3, so I don't know what she thinks she's protecting against. From my view here, Britain's problems are an oppressive attitude, a collapse of social structure, a victim culture, where victims are lauded on TV and rewarded in the courts so much that everyone wants to be a victim, racism to the extreme, lack of basic freedoms, lack of equality among people, a heavy handed police force, an oppressive surveillance society, criminalization of sexulaly, a charity to condemn every fun thing, ten years of a twat in power and a murdoch in control of your media have left you in a pretty bad state.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F10%2F25%2Fncrim25.xml

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The title...

Am I the only with a dirty mind?

I'd prefer it if we gave more support to the police to help them deal with crime, no matter who is at fault, whether it is native Britons or immigrants, we need more police, and better equipped police, to deal with the problem.

I'd also vote for removing some of the red tape that prevents police personnel from doing their jobs.

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Anonymous Coward

Victim Culture

"...victims are lauded on TV and rewarded in the courts so much that everyone wants to be a victim..."

And is either too scared of the consequences of standing up for themselves that they're unable to, or has been led to be dependent on others for every need that they don't see the need for the skills to be able to look after themselves.

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Happy

@Jonathan

No. I had a little chuckle. Great headline.

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Anonymous Coward

@Britain the most violent country in Europe

And that's why anyone with half a brain and isn't lazy or doesn't thinks the oppression of justice in this dump is a good thing is trying their hardest to get out to their desired end point.

In 20 years the only people left in Britain will be

a: Stupid

b: Right wing zealots of one persuasion or an other

c: Lazy

d: Immigrants (bless them the misguided fools)

e: Former immigrant societies that haven't integrated (because integration is taboo)

f: people who just think that our governments view on law, justice and freedom are right.

Here's to a final year degree and getting the hell out of here.

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Anonymous Coward

@Victim Culture...

"And is either too scared of the consequences of standing up for themselves that they're unable to"....

Or indeed would be punished if they did. Have you ever clipped a kid around the ear for bad behaviour? Yet without negative feedback for bad actions, they're supposed to grow up well behaved?

These people didn't just become helpless by positive reinforcement of their victimhood, they also became helpless by negative punishments for taking charge of the situation!

A pattern I notice when dealing with Brits is the 'are we allowed to do that?' pattern. A fear of doing anything in case it's disallowed somehow, even without evidence that it is disallowed. A timidity in life.

I think that it is because nobody will ever come out of their house and complain directly, no clipping around the ear for kids throwing stones. Instead they make hidden complaints done via the police. No more 'keep that noise down' instead you'll get a noise abatement order a month later...

So is something bad? You'll never know until way into the future when you get your ASBO or a plastic policeman will come around and try to arrest you for something.

I think the police are far too involved in matters that are not their area. If person A has a problem with person B's social behaviour, they should address it directly themselves as a social problem.

I'm not the only one to notice, I asked a dutch girl I liked for a f**k once, she said it was unusual for British men to say what they want. I had to explain to her that in Britain, there is a move to make sexual discussion a sex crime. She didn't understand, but that's OK, she did lots of stuff in bed. Since I'm only half British I get to see both sides.

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Joke

Let's build a wall

Let's build a wall around England and fill it with water.

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Coat

Erm...Don't see how..

...any number of Ms Smiths fancy `rings of security` will stop the government and its agencies from paying patsies to blow stuff up in the name of going to war and all the spoils which that brings.... Anyone? I just don't get it. I guess I must be f*cking stupid. All Ms Smith's rings will do is increasingly restrict the public freedoms. I can't believe they haven't thought of this. Oh if only they could see the error of their ways, I'm sure they'd reconsider...

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Flame

Bwa ha ha

We don't need more police we just need the ones they've got to stop clustering at any incident they find to avoid work. This morning 2 cars had a minor shunt and 8 police cars with 12 police men standing round *NOT* directing traffic or taking statements or ...well...anything useful. Just standing there in the rain.

Still at least it proves they have legs I suppose, you're lucky to see them out of their nice warm cars <sigh>

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Alert

keep it simple, stupid.

Are our borders insecure? Given that they are wide open and the armies of the Hun are not pouring through to rape and pillage, i'd think not.

The armies of migrants that are pooring through are mostly a good thing, but all that needs to happen is for the them to be counted in and counted out. Its really that simple. Then we can provide appropriate services / taxation etc.

I dispair of this government that has useless over-engineered ideas that are pointless and do nothing to change the situation except of course use more of our tax money.

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Flame

Malware alert

When you have terrorists resident, funded, housed and cared for by the state and using Britain as a base, so more police looks damned futile, without first attacking the root cause. We have a damned bad root kit, viruses and trojans infecting the kernel of Britain, which are causing havoc and using up system resources at an alarming rate, we need to do a full off-line anti-malware scan and disinfect done on the whole of Britain! That solution is no socialist fake, is it real Britishness, with genuine values.

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Coat

buttocks duly clenched

I know, it is the long mac'

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Security ring around Britain not necessary

Building a ring around the Houses of Parliament (and severing all communications as well) would make us far safer.

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Unhappy

@Anon: Would they really reconsider

when there's a big fat bonus for them being in on the conspiracy, and arms dealers are set to make even more money than the drug trade?

War is good for their business. They don't care about the millions of dead and the poisoning of lands.

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Britain bashing

Although I would be the first to queue up to kick Gordon the moron in the cods I don't think we are the third world hell hole that some of these comments here would suggest. I don't see where the racism and lack of equality is, especially compared to the US or Germany, and criminality of sexuality means what, exactly? Bothering kids? You have to remember that our prisons are creaking at the seams so really, Labour does it's usual thing of making farting a crime etc and then can't follow it up. Same as with everything they do. We'll be back out of the 1970s soon enough. Chin up and vote the cunts out at the next election.

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Ian
Stop

Special Branch

...do actually do a little more than taping politicians in prison (whoops, did I actually mean that, or was it wishful thinking?) - ask anyone who is daft enough to try and fly a light aircraft to Northern Ireland!

That headline just sounds painful.

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@Marc

"Let's build a wall around England and fill it with water."

Tsk tsk replace England, with France. Then you'll have that correct ;)

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Stop

enhanced, police-like powers

"proposed new UK Border Agency, which may deploy operatives with enhanced, police-like powers in addition to actual coppers"

Would these be the same "enhanced, police-like powers" that the highways wombles and the police community support wombles have? So far those powers seem to be limited to wearing a high visibility vest and impersonating a police officer without prosecution. Their powers to rescue kids from drowning in canals was missed in the training.

Dressing these people as coppers does not mean we are fooled... they are just more high vis wombles.

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RE: Britain bashing

I agree. I feal the people who are the problem are the ones who just complaine. If you dont like it stand up and be counted. Unlike many countrys we do still have some democracy in the UK. Your vote dose count, and if that is not enough for you, stand for election. Unlike many places (The US) you don't have to be a multi milionair in the UK just to fund an election. If you are right then people will vote for you and you can realy do somthing, if that is not the way it goes for you then deal with the fact that your view is not shared.

Posting on a slightly obscuer IT site is not the way to change things, even a letter to a national news paper wont work. Please, stand up and do somthing, or shut up.

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@Glyn

I agree with that Glyn, most of the real coppers seem to spend half the time appearing on TV, sat in cars or doing paperwork. It seems that the Hobby coppers are the ones left out in the cold.

And society continues to turn into utter shit :-(

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Anonymous Coward

@Britain Bashing

"I don't see where the racism and lack of equality is, especially compared to the US or Germany, and criminality of sexuality means what, exactly? Bothering kids? You have to remember that our prisons are creaking at the seams so really, Labour does it's usual thing of making farting a crime etc and then can't follow it up. Same as with everything they do. We'll be back out of the 1970s soon enough. Chin up and vote the cunts out at the next election."

I don't think the other team are any better.

You have 3 x the violence of Europe and the largest prison population per population in Europe (you overtook Portugal since 2002), sure there are worse places like USA, but from where I'm standing it seems you're copying the USA policies. Notice you painted sexuality as 'Bothering kids', yet my comment didn't mention kids, that general criminalization of sexuality attitude I see in the UK.

What I notice is the Tories are the same as Labour, and the real driver for UK is Murdoch papers and media.

For example, there is a problem with teenage violence, Murdochs lot then painted that as 'alcohol fueled teenagers' and so the fix was shifted into tackling alcohol! It looks like a simple bump is all that was needed to deflect them down a wrong road.

Same with the rape problem, conviction rates vs Europe are very bad in the UK, if you look at the difference in the two systems, it's the 'victim support' thing. The rules in the UK allow less freedom to investigate suspected false rape allegations, ...have to support the victims, even if you suspect they're not a victim.

So more charges of rape are brought in the UK than Europe, but fewer of them succeed in convictions. i.e. more false claims are made.

Cameron tried to use this to get the women vote 'Labour doesn't care about women!' and Jacqui promptly skewed the system even more to even more unsound convictions. Yeh, way to pander to the womens vote.

A change of team doesn't change the leadership, the leadership is clearly Murdoch's lot.

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Black Helicopters

"39 new Special Branch post"

Does not necessariliy equate to 39 extra plods, as I presume that these 'posts' will be filled internally by suitably qualified and experienced officers.

Or is the Hom.Off. just bullshitting us?

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@Paul

"Unlike many countrys we do still have some democracy in the UK. Your vote dose count, "

No its only counts in a few marginal key seats. For 85% of the country you may as well not bother for the effect it has on the end result.

Plus what use is a vote when the choice is Idiots A, Idiots B or Idiots C?

I'm a middle class, reasonably educated, law abiding, tax paying, common sense, keep myself to myself, enviromentally sceptical, non-religious, car driving, terrorism ignoring brit.

Which of the Political parties best represent me? I'm struggling

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Paris Hilton

How did they arrive ...

... at a figure of 39? Would 38 have been insufficient or 40 a case of severe overmanning?

PH because her ring is apparently not tightened against intrusion. And she's not worried about overmanning either.

Anonymous because I'm at work

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Triple ring of security?

I'm sick and tired of seeing a sign saying "UK Border" when I arrive off a plane at Heathrow and Gatwick. It's not a border, it's a row of counters...in a hall...in a building...in the middle of Middlesex or Sussex.

And do we really need experienced police officers to work as immigration officers? I thought the brain-dead morons who currently do that job do it quite adequately if a little slowly.

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Pirate

Are our borders insecure?

Yes.

All the checks take place at airports. We regularly sail from the east cost to Belgium and Holland. There are no checks at either departure or arrival.

Pirate, coz it would be easy to bring anything or anyone into the UK anytime.

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re: Are our borders insecure?

Ah, but you can't hijack a ferry with a boxcutter and fly it into Canary Wharf. I'm willing to bet that you could get on a ship in Southampton and go to New York without having your luggage tipped all over the deck too. I'm sure there was a point to this... no, it's gone.

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Happy

To Michael

Let me know when you're planning your next trip, I have some friends awith packages that would like to arrange a sailing trip from Holland to the Uk......

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re Britain Bashing

I find this quite odd.

I have never been a victim of any crime, let alone a violent one, and I can't think of a single friend or family member who has either. Maybe it's because we don't live in London, but I find this country to be quite lovely, and full of nice, helpful people.

If you don't like it, the ring isn't tightened against you exiting, and will doubtless help you on your way.

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Anonymous Coward

re re: Are our borders insecure?

I just had the funniest image of someone flying a boat into Canary Wharf I almost feel the need to shop 9/11 pics that currently have mooninites on them.

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Anonymous Coward

Keeping Tabs on Us Rather Than Keeping 'Them' Out

I travel by car to Germany about a dozen times a year. The only place where I get border 'Aggro' is leaving my own damned country! I'm a white middle aged, middle Englander and regularly get asked 1. Where I'm going? 2. How Long For? 3. Business or Pleasure? 4. Who am I working for? 5. Did I pack my own Suitcases?!! 6.Do I have any Guns? We don't need more officers we just want them to do the job that Parliament tells the public they are being deployed for.

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Anonymous Coward

O I had a thought

I had a thought the other day - I was thinking has anyone told the British and American retards in charge that most mobile laptops are liquid cooled? I'd love to see the reaction if that little revelation was revealed.

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Flame

39 more SB posts, not officers...

... given that there are more than 2,500 vacant detective posts across England and Wales (no-one wants to be a detective any more, it's simply just not worth it, given the alternatives), these are just new posts, not officers.

Of course, these posts will be filled by experienced detective officers from the 43 forces in England and Wales, which will just leave even more vacant detective posts in local CID offices, so there will be fewer qualified resources to detect local crimes.

Micro-management of policing by the Government and the so-called "policing reforms" over the last 10 years have led to a crisis in policing... even the Association of Police Authorities has conceded that there are too few candidates for chief officer vacancies, simply because the best officers know that it's just not worth the hassle for the money on offer.

And if that isn't a strong indication that the system is collapsing, wake up and look at the figures for retirements and leavers (many to other countries such as Australia, from which a recruitment team from Western Australia has come back a second time for more experienced British officers, their last visit having been so successful).

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Joke

Hang on

Hang on a minute , since on the Euro mainland the only borders that now exist are those which are external and abut non member EU countries and only white marker posts say "You are now leaving Finland drive safely" and fifty metres down the road "You are entering Sweden drive safely" and so forth !

And since the UK is now part and parcel of the group , it is only a matter of time HM Customs Staff will be reduced to greeting and waving goodbye to international tourists arriving and departing from international ports of call as all those with Euro passports can walk through the open gate !

Whatever that woman is smoking is truly a very potent form of weed !

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