I look forward to the Daily Mail running a front-page editorial admitting that "OWR CAMPANE TO SAVE TEH WURLD!!!! WE MAID GORDON BAN PLASTEK BAGGS!!!!!" is actually based on inaccurate information.

Waddya mean I might be waiting a while?

(you forgot one vital use for these - as a dog owner, plastic bags are a life-saver....!)

...gets the sack over this!

This is the first time that I have heard of plastic bags killing marine life (even if the article was wrong).

However, in Canada we are reducing our usage of plastic shopping bags because they take up too much space in our landfills and don't degrade in a reasonable period of time.

In my house we use about 12 cloth shopping bags for our groceries, and return other shops bags to them for disposal/recycling.

There's still more than enough reasons not to use them anyway. The pile of plastic bags I've not used must be a mountainous by now and that can't be bad.

The "coat" icon because it looks a bit like a don't drop litter icon.

OK so that study turns out to be bollocks - but it doesn't mean plastic is completely harmless.

The effects on areas of African soil can be seen here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6253564.stm

Tenuous connection, but I wonder how many shrews/voles/children were really choked by the old-style coke can ring pulls. I was terribly disappointed when they changed the design, the old one could be removed and converted into a small metal ring spring firing mechanism. Thinking about it, maybe that's why they really changed.

Paris 'cos it wouldn't surprise me if she's half plastic.

..and even I know the myth of plastic bag pollution. Eye sore, yes; pain in the proverbial when they break 6ft from your front door exploding its contents right across the street, yes (and you just know it's the one with eggs in, don't you) - apocalyptic environment destroyer - no. You can recycle them at most superstores anyway.

I'm waiting for the terrorist angle, where plastic bags are used by terrorists so should be banned, or are deemed WMD's so the country/store of manufacture is invaded to ensure our liberty.

Paris 'cos her personality reminds me of one.

I don't know about Dolphins, but I see what plastic bags do to the countryside. The victims are humans who have to look at them every day. Ban them, and plastic bottles too! A Punishment fit for the person who designed the Lucozade bottle has yet to be devised.

Well said. Very eloquently spoken. And a F*ck you to all the haters who seem to think that they have a right to judge! FFS, i wouldn't mind betting that all the people, that commented negatively, would give their eye teeth for the ability to provide for their family as this man can. All you have to do is concentrate and work hard. A concept lost on most of the inhabitants of this green and pleasant land!

Maybe I got this wrong, but I'm not sure that this was totally based on animals being killed by plastic bags.

All of the plastic bag replacements are being sold as green bags i.e. less damaging to the environment by using less plastics and putting less stuff into landfill when for the majority of people doing their weekly shop it is just as easy to reuse bags.

Now whilst the government policy may be based on this I am sure it is more heavily biased towards environmental impact.

Surely someone realised something was up with the report when they included birds as mammals!

I burn them at the bottom of the garden along with all the other crap people insist I should recycle!

I've read quite a bit over the years about plastic bags. Never once have I come across anyone arguing that they kill sea life.

Isn't this a strawman argument? You are opposed to banning plastic bags, so you ascribe a flawed argument to your opponents. You then demonstrate the flaws in the argument and dismiss your opponents position in its entirety on that basis.

I always thought of the Register as bringing a greater intellectual rigour to its analysis than any other media outlet. So I'm rather disappointed by this article.

I have never seen sea life killed by plastic bags, but I have seen huge 'sargassos' of dead fish, dolphins, chunks of packing foam, seaweed and other crud wrapped in bright fishing nets floating in the sea between Hong Kong and Macau, as they drifted to shore and so came close to human traffic and the human eye. I wondered how many of these floating islands of rot were out beyond the horizon.

I have crossed the Gobi desert and seen, smashed up again the fences that protect the roads and the railway lines, hundreds and hundreds of plastic bags and plastic water bottles, stretching along the fences for hundreds and hundreds of miles. Human habitation was about 500 miles or more apart. This stuff either came from trucks, cars and trains, or had been blowing for thousands of miles to end up against these fences.

The aggregate result of being idle, of chucking stuff away without thought, of not caring about the impact of our actions, came home to me in these two distant places, because it was new and different. Nothing is so invisible as the landfill and litter and sea garbage we choose not to see in our own back yards.

You have to look at the "total cost of ownership" of the plastic bag. It is much less than that of the bio-degradable "eco" paper bag. The energy/resources used to create a plastic bag are much less per bag IF it gets re-used.

Plastic bags last longer and can be easily re-used. The trouble is we DON'T re-use them - the majority get thrown away. Paper bags that are made to throw away because they bio-degrade use much more energy/resources per bag.

The answer is to reuse all those plastic bags not "burn them at the bottom of the garden". We have enough to last generations!

Along with not being able to consistently place spaces in your screen name, you also suffer from Foot-In-Mouth disease.

"Too many people with no experience or education of a particular subject /issue have to much influence on Government policy." closely followed up by demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of Economics, Retail Marketing and politics when you say "Maybe if the government over the last 25 years had stopped the supermarkets building hyper markets outside of the towns... "

Classic stuff. Thanks for the laugh.

Two things to be aware of regarding plastic bags:

Their durability makes them recyclable - in that they get used again and again. Real recycling that is. I keep hold of bags and use them for all sorts of things that would otherwise require me to go out and buy much thicker purpose-made bin-bags.

They're made using byproducts from petroleum distillation that would otherwise end up being dumped somewhere. Stop producing plastic bags and that stuff will have to go into something else.

I mean, sure, they make a mess, but wouldn't a campaign of getting people to actually put their rubbish in the bin be a better solution?

and the bag trees are blooming already. Don't know what a bag tree is?... look out the window the next time there's a good windy day about. you'll see plenty of trees with plastic bags all over them. these are the blooming bag trees! You know the bag trees are in full bloom when you catch a tumblebag in the radiator of your car and are forced to pull over to extract it.

I personally like the plastic shopping bags... they make great bin liners. I haven't needed to buy trash bags for at least a few years now.

mines the genuine nalgahide

I mean, I am not so wild about the sight of filthy plastic bags hanging off of a fence, tree, or lord knows where, but we might as well start keeping score.

THE RISE OF PLASTICS

Round 1 Paper or Plastic (bags)

Paper 0 - Plastic 1

winner: Petroplastic manufacturing companies

loser: Lumber and Paper

strategy: hug a tree save the planet...nevermind that plastic has a half life

Round 2 Paper or Plastic

Strategy: Plastic creates less waste in landfills, and is lighter

Round xyz Paper or Plastic: Paper strikes back

Strategy: Tastes just like jellyfish...urp.

Shall I continue? Yes it is very likely coordinated corporate perceptual warfare.

A choice between paper and plastic is a false choice. Most shopping centres near me only offer plastic and the staff are (un)trained to put even to most trivial item in a bag. The choice here is between sitting idle and letting nitiwits use plastic one time use bags or giving them an econimic penalty to remember to bring a cloth bag with em.

@ Iain Black "It's about reducing the amount going into landfill, the non biodegradability of them and reducing the pollution of manufacturing the things in the first place!"

Ahem, *everything*, including lead acid car batteries, is both biodegradable and recyclable. It may not be easy, or cheap, or even sensible, but sooner or later even that broken down car with no wheels in your neighbour's yard will eventually return to the earth from whence it came.

Buy less, use less, and use it til it's well and truly worn out.

Paris 'cause she's pretty worn out and seems to recycle herself, although not as well as Madonna.

Lord Taverne and Sense about Science have been discredited as paid schills for various people, go do a bit of googling for them.

A quick search turned this up

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2003/12/09/invasion-of-the-entryists/

\Pirate icon as Sense about Science ride the high seas being destructive about real science

I thought the majority of the new placcy bags coming out of the supermarkets now aren't plastic, but corn starch - you know, the ones that you use to store stuff in your garage, and then come to them a couple of years later only to find that they've totally disintegrated, and not necessarily due to mice either.

FWIW I asked a couple of retailers (Ikea being one) why they no longer use Paper Bags. Apparently Paper Bags are actually less green than Plastic (or at least biodegradable plastic bags) because they take alot more energy to make and are less environmentally / CO2 friendly in their production.

So I can't understand the Government's tirade - it's just their usual misinformed bollocks.

Righto lads!

Pete - you've nailed it with a high degree of precision. If no one else does, rest assured that I'll nominate you for a Nobel of one sort or another for a service to humanity.

Barry - kudos on pointing out the painfully obvious to some of our thicker-headed types. After all, even radioactive waste has a finite half-life - it's all dust to dust over some time scale.

The youth of today don't know or can't appreciate how people of the 1950's railed at what they called "planned obsolescence". Conservation was the rule rather than the exception

Look

I would have taxed the hell out these things from day 1 if I had been in charge for the last 10 years. 10p Each plus and i would have made a killing for the public purse.

I wouldn't have bothered with any sort of scientific evidence, i'd just say they look like crap blowing about the city and country side, they are plastic and therefore use up oil, they block drains, the take up landfill room and we don't need them.

My argument would be if you really insist on them then you can give me some money.

Sometimes you don't need science or pseudo science to make a policy, sometimes you just need a little common sense.

(Paris because even she could figure it out)

Not seen the politicians here (australia) give a suitable alternative to bin liners. Bin liners qualify as thin film plastic which I heard our government say would be to the effect of, illegal to manufacture. I use my plastic bags to line my bin because it keeps moisture in at time when there is rubbish with moisture. Yes despite the fact I compost bios. Because I do also use solid bags at the shops I sometimes run out of shopping bags to recycle as bin liners, the result is I use a bag from a roll of thin film plastic bags made for bins which look and feel no different to a shopping bag.

Now I can ASUME they intend of providing me with waxed paper bags to put in my bin? Are they going to supply the solid bags for shopping? I've had to buy them to date. What happens to the waxed bags? Are they polluting in manufacturing? Do they pollute after dumping? Not sure of what alternatives they are actually thinking because they never mention it.

Instead of stuffing us all around and dipping your (governments hands) hand in my wallet yet again. Try developing the degradable industry and replace the existing thin film bags with degradable thin film bags with no change to the public setup. How ever that may be in existing areas.

If they start charging for bin liners I'll start dumping my rubbish loose into my bin. The council can stuff themeless if they have a problem with emptying into their trucks. If they start hassling me with fines because I refuse to use something like wax bags I'll have to buy I'll go for a drive and dump it...

Not me literally, but I know people will do it. They do already which means there will be yet another reason for illegal polluting dumping... If you like the Simposons you might recognize this quote form Marge "Think harder..." This problem isn't solved by banning manufacturing of thin film plastics and taxing the use of bags in shops. Think harder...

As it is, over a third of my income is absorbed by rent, thanks for rent shortage. I can't afford more government dipping. But then again if I'm homeless I wont have a bin to line.

Whilst use of any bad science to develop policy needs reporting and shaming, I can't help thinking that the Reg is developing a strong envirosceptic stance, particularly in what it chooses to report and what it doesn't.

Is this anti-green stance reflecting the readership? I hope not!

Let's also pay for shop's rent and electricity bill. After all, we can all be eco-friendly and only shop in the daytime out of the back of the store truck, right? Next time you're in the shop, leave a tip for the cashier as well, it's not like she's being being paid out of store' profit margin.

Do all of you really believe that the customers in the stores aren't already charged for the bags?

Can't believe my eyes when I see people writing crap like that