back to article Pirate Bay slapped with copyright charges

The Pirate Bay said it will live on no matter what the outcome of a case brought by a Swedish prosecutor who charged four men involved with the running of the torrent tracker site today. A blog post on the outfit's website declares: "In case we lose the pending trial (yeah right) there will still not be any changes to the site …

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Yarrrr! Sealand ahoy!

One URL for these guys.

www.sealandnews.com

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Silver badge

IPFI

Last time I checked, Pirate Bay was loosing money, not making it... Just goes to show how these guys will make anything up.

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Pirate

I would be surprised

...if they cannot get this application dismissed.

In the last action against TPB, higher courts have already ruled on the matter, so bringing new allegations isn't likely to hold water. Just because there is 4600 pages in the complaint doesn't mean it will fly.

Politically things aren't looking good either. In Sweden it seems that people are becoming increasingly aware of the draconian overuse of copyright and there, and I get the impression the government is not making itself popular over this.

I even notice they've changed their logo:

http://static.thepiratebay.org/doodles/jubil2007.jpg

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Alert

Yeah right...

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash." - no different from the IFPI, MPAA, RIAA, BPI etc. etc. then.

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Flame

hurry uyp and die already

IFPI CEO John Kennedy said: "The Pirate Bay has managed to make Sweden, normally the most law-abiding of EU countries"

Ooh you stereotyping racist. Can anyone at the IFPI say anything sensible? Can anyone trust anything they say any more? Do they keep having to make themselves look silly? Look out for the answers on Pirate Bay.

These ridiculous sharks (I'm talking about the copyright industry, FACT, etc.) should stop swanning around making fools of themselves, get a few

prgrammers together, and knock out a legal bittorrent distribution program that allows say, downloading of TV show for £1, and albums for £4 - something like that. As they should have done back in 2004. As they should have done with music singles in 2001 after seeing how Napster worked.

They're bloody dinosaurs and I'm praying Darwin proves them right.

ALL the torrent sites I use value having clean, uncluttered sites, pride themselves on getting high-quality releases out as soon as possible, have quick and helpful customer support, are able to work cleanly for thousands of people, and are also able to get users to pay about $40 a year to use their site. They are community-based and as such their customer service is top-notch, It's the equivalent of visiting your local village post office rather than standing in queues in London's main sorting office. And they do it for a love of TV/movies/music/whatever, rather than a desire for something for free or to 'stick it to the industries'.

I have no qualms being a pirate until they these arses are put out to pasture. The thing that get's my goat is I'm willing to pay.

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Linux

TPB estimated revenue

$200K per day revenue, not bad

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@ SmokeyPcPotHead

Or me for that matter!

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Thumb Up

Their Logo

Is just great :)

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Black Helicopters

Sealand?

Didn't they try that already?

Plus as a Lord of Sealand I think I speak for the nation when I say I'd be disapointed if Prince Michael decided to associate our great principality with the Pirate Bay.

I'm not sure I agree with all the causes Pirate Bay promote.

Heli in honour of the one used to retake our beloved Sealand last time pirates attacked.

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Joe

What's Next Automobile Manufacturers

So then by the logic of the case you could sue all the car makers for accessory to speeding. What if someone drowns in a pool, you can sue the water company for the water that was in the pool. It's all ready been tried here in the states but you could sue the gun makers if someone is killed with a gun. And speaking of cars, you could sue all the car makers of the cars driven by crash victims that died in cars going to fast because the cars speed wasn't properly limited to the speeds set by law.

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Pirate

Can of worms

How can they (the prosecutor) possibly get away with this?

All TPB do is provide links to the files, even Google does this, so if TPB lose does this mean Google will get slapped for billions in accessories to commit piracy and infringe copyright???

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Coat

Avast!

I be sailin' the high seas of proper grammar, yarr, an' I be haulin' anchor a tad fer ta be sayin' 'tis LOSE, not LOOSE!

Aye, mine be the salty one.

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Anonymous Coward

Doesn't make sense

If TPB are motivated by money then they would be charging punters joining fee like the referred-to Russian sites. Is it possible that the revenue they get is to simply cover costs? After all, would you run a p2p search site, maintain its infrastructure and pay your ISP and host for free?

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Anonymous Coward

Who's copyright are

they infringing who copyrighted those links maybe they should go after Google too. They aren't paying for the bandwidth it's not their content why are they being charged.

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Quality quote!

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash."

Pot, meet kettle.

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Paris Hilton

Where do I donate to their legal fees?

Insulting two countries at once - what a wanka

IFPI CEO John Kennedy said: "The Pirate Bay has managed to make Sweden, normally the most law-abiding of EU countries, look like a piracy haven with intellectual property laws on a par with Russia."

Oh Paris, since I assume Mr. Kennedy spends a lot of time.... well being a wanka

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Pirate

/tear

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash."

I've not laughed that much in a LONG time. Jesus.

/waves at RIAA, MPAA and IFPI

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Thumb Up

I find my torrents via google...does that make them guilty?

@Anonymous Coward: "I'm willing to pay".

Me too. I'd willingly pay a license fee in return for access to all the BBC archives like people in the UK have...but I can't. I live in Spain and there's no legal way for me to access the BBC content.

Sites like PirateBay put it up for free so what am I supposed to do?

The problem is mostly with the content providers, not the pirates. If stuff was easy/cheap to get legally then I'd probably cough up a subscription rather than go through all the hassle of torrent sites (which are full of fakes, scams, trojans, etc.).

PS: Content providers need to get very realistic about their fees. I'm not willing to pay £5 for an episode of something that I'll watch exactly once.

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Pirate

Avast!

them Swedes, they be a fearsome maritime nation in the past, har har me hearties, 'tis no wonder they be harbouring many a buccaneer in those Baltic interweb coves, shiver me timbers.

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Ed

Regardless of...

Regardless of the IFPI making themselves look like a bunch of idiots, can anyone tell me how facilitating theft is idealistic? Seriously... (can anyone elaborate?) I don't see the moral high ground under TPB. It sounds to me like a case of wankers vs wankers...

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21 century already pls.

No one is going to make me drive/walk whatever to the recordstore again to buy overhyped crap again. Doesnt matter if they kill TPB. These guys lost the initiative when they killed Napster.

Everyone from that era should be fired if they havent already.

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Happy

And that makes four...

" . . . IFPI has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash."

Oh, dear, would someone please tell El Reg's editors NOT to publish this kind of troll bait again? I just had to change my diaper, having bepissed myself laughing.

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Pirate

IFPI, RIAA, MPAA

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash."

Pot, meet Kettle!

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Flame

Thinking before talking

The International Federation of the Pornographic, I'm sorry, Phonographic Industries needs to STFU imo. Their entire statement is incredibly offensive on multiple accounts.

First the Russia thing - so I guess noone in The Land of the Free downloads stuff from torrents, huh? It's only them pesky slavs, with their inherent addiction to stealing honest people's property? I'm not russian myself and I am usually not easily offended by national/ethnic stereotypes, but somehow insulting russians and others typing in that funny cyrillic alphabet by bland generalizations is considered to be OK. Hey, what's the big deal, they are white and christian, so no problem there.

And then the assumption that everyone who uses p2p technology and TPB in particular is a pirate, yarr! I was under the impression that there were legal stuff on those trackers so shutting them down would deprive us of the possibility to get said free stuff.

What a bunch of losers.

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Bronze badge

Priceless

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash."

Pot, Kettle, Black

$200K per day, I think not. That made me laugh almost as much.

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Russia it is then!

Speaking of Russia,what happens when it all ends up there then? (The Free Music Industry, that is! )If the useless gits we have here can't get a suspect for murder extradited,what chance do a bunch of jukebox bashers have? Ponimiou Tovarich? ( I think thats right!

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Unhappy

Sigh

"Sweden, normally the most law-abiding of EU countries, look like a piracy haven"

Yet again, a non-Swede is making the presumption that non-Swedish laws apply in Sweden.

I have news for the IFPI and its members. Much as they would like it to be otherwise, the laws of the USA only apply in the USA.

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Pirate

To the CLUE DEPRIVED-- am quite willing to pay...

I too am quite willing to pay for content. However, once when wanting to find a particular old TV show episode, while looking for a source I found a FREE and LEGAL download site (AOL) for it. Great I thought-- BUT, it turned out it required me to use THEIR download manager which I had to download first (and did), but could never get the convoluted thing it to WORK. After trying for several hours to use their messed up method of a FREE download, getting an aborted partial file several times and then finally the complete file but that wouldn't play-- even the FREE download included some DRM or other irrelevant ( to me) and broken crap. Out of pure frustration I finally googled across someone hawking a bootleg DVD of the entire TV series and DID end up paying for it, but the money undoubtedly did not go to the copyright holder. I figure my action was quite justified given the hours I spent trying to use their defective system to get it legally. GET A CLUE GUYS-- I don't need it to be FREE, I just need it to WORK. Do you think I would actually try a pay-for-download service after such an experience? No, now I will ONLY do content downloads that are not only FREE but otherwise unencumbered-- paid content better be delivered on CD or DVD via the postal service. I don't even need it to be immediate.

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Unhappy

try before you buy

I know it's been said before, but it is well worth saying again in case one of these RIAsses ever accidentaly reads this.

P2P is as the title - if I can't spend a bit of time listening to a few tracks I will not buy it. The only time I spend money on CDs coincides with the times I spend downloading tunes from e-bay & previously WinMX. Radio just isn't good enough because most of it is pushed by the RIAA dealers - this is who we have spent the money on - this is what you have to sell - this is what yo uhave to buy.

I seek out bands on reccomendation - crucially wehn I have the time and inclination.

80% of my CD collection has been bought because I downloaded unlicensed copies first (or was given a tape - remember those?) - the rest is just stuff I heard as a 3rd brother of 4 as a kid and bought for nostalgic nights nursing the whiskey and complaing about how they don't make music like they did when I were a lad and to remember my first scary trip to beaver land behind the school disco.

The world has changed. 'Consumers' want the choice of what they consume and when they are going to consume it. I am 100% sure that the decline of sales is due to the shit that the record companies push to the market rather than rampant piracy.

As an experiment let's try making cinemas charge when you leave the cinema instead of to enter. Say you had to pay full price for watching 66% or more of the film but upto to then you pay a percentage for how much you could bear. I am pretty sure you would see an instant drop in profits because the crap they serve up is only worth staying for the punishment because you have already paid.

What use are album sales or box office takings except to express how well the public have been deceived by the marketing.

Here's an alternative - the pirate chart. : "Dirty scumbag pirates have downloaded this album or film (at a crappy compression rate) more than any other currently available on the net - get the full quality version here.

Make shit films / music get shit sales. Make a great movie / album - most people will want a high quality version to own.

I can quite happily get my music for free by ripping my mates CD's - DVD's and paying a lot less for a functional browsing level internet connection if they want to go down the route of policing p2p. Even linux distros are avalable for a few quid from a magazine freebie. Although these days I am now happy to pay 40 euros or so for Mandriva with proprietary drivers and support.

fuck the pirates - long live pirate bay

I choose unsmiley because RIAA et al must be on something (but certainly not E, I don't feel the love)

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TPB ripping off Artists ??

THAT has just GOT to be the funniest thing I have ever heard.

IF and I repeat IF these "people"(insert pejorative term of choice) actually WERE representing the interests of the Artists then I would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for downloading their work.

The MAIN problem here is that they are NOT doing so, but instead are representing the major record labels and film companies but are passing themselves off as representing the Artists and blaming sites like TPB for the Artist's lost revenues which is a downright fraudulent claim IMHO given that something like 80% of the proceeds of a sale go direct to the labels or film companies involved and NOT where we are led to believe.

Proof of that was shown when a pop group recently published their latest album for download on the internet for whatever people like us were willing to pay for it. The average price paid was $6 and they made something in the region of $3,000,000 from those sales.... not counting the free publicity they gained for their upcoming live tour and advertising revenues etc etc which again went straight to them as it rightly should.

All I can say is that I REALLY wish I had the skills to hack into their computers cos I would put a film on the RIAA's and a music track on the MPAA's and then setup a copy of uTorrent on each and make them download from each other...... imagine the fur and feathers.... we could even charge an entrance fee for folk wanting to watch.

Shee

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Anonymous Coward

keep on sailing

and despite all that they will be imortal!

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Boffin

Yeah, but yarr or no yarr

For what it's worth the solution is on everyone's tongue - subscription services. And hopefully, we'll be able to get something like that sooner rather than later.

People all over the word engage in a form of social disobedience - we refuse to acknowledge the laws that weren't made by us and serve only to restrict our freedom and rights. The copyright issue is one of the bigger issues of the modern age. Patenting resources that aren't innumerable, such as DNA strings in soy seeds and the ways you can make a taco sign spin, will conceivably pose a lot of problems in the years to come. Whilst right now there still exists a vast domain of property the big corporations haven't had time to patent, in the future we might not be so lucky.

In conclusion, our motivation to get free Housewives episodes is rooted in greed, but we are willing to pay for the content at a reasonable price. The content duplication costs next to nothing, and so we feel our demands are justified. Hopefully we'll win, and our victory will be precedent for a general debate on the copyright issues.

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Anonymous Coward

MIssing the point

I work for a small software publisher (Flight Simulation add-ons which is a very small market) and most of our products are produced by a few guys working at home after their normal daytime jobs. They spend thousands of hours producing their aircraft package and while not doing it for the money, hope to make a little money to contribute to getting flying time in their next aircarft to simulate. These projects are works of the passion in our hobby. Our products have regularly mentions on pirate bay where the "morons" that want to download free ask if anyone has managed to crack our protection yet? This issue affects all developers, so I hope those of you that support Pirate Bay have your company's work STOLEN and you are out of a job soon.

Ideology my arse...

RANT over.

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Stop

Maybe...

I work for a small software publisher (Flight Simulation add-ons which is a very small market) and most of our products are produced by a few guys working at home after their normal daytime jobs."

Maybe some people want to check the quality out before they invest in your fly-by-night bedroom software, and a few screenshots isn't really going to let them know how it will perform for them.

Maybe your delivery method is too restrictive or takes too long, and some people want a copy to play while they wait for the copy they just paid for to ship.

Maybe your overall sales are actually higher because of the pirate bay, since a percentage of those who download will buy afterwards and sales*some > sales*none.

Maybe your protection method is too aggressive, and people are being locked out of products they have purchased (for example Microsoft refused to unlock my £60 copy of FSX Deluxe after I upgraded my machine several times in order to cope with it).

Maybe the market is bigger than you think, but your attitude to new distribution technology is holding you back.

"This issue affects all developers, so I hope those of you that support Pirate Bay have your company's work STOLEN and you are out of a job soon."

I don't think it even affects -most- developers. But whatever, you think it affects you so and you're a developer, so it must affect all developers.

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Boffin

Ummm Logic Incorrect..

[I work for a small software publisher (Flight Simulation add-ons which is a very small market)]

Do you really think that the people who downloaded it would have purchased it anyway ?? I think not... Only a tiny % of illegal downloads result in loss of revenue since most downloaders would NEVER have purchased the product anyway.

Most software is rubbish or over priced. Adobe Photoshop for example, is very expensive but an excellent product. Its price out of reach for most though. If the price was drastically reduced to say £30 for Home Users, I'd buy a copy tomorrow !

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Flame

@ Missing the Point

I think it is you sir who is missing the point

"and while not doing it for the money, hope to make a little money to contribute to getting flying time in their next aircarft to simulate"

Distribute it on your website for free and request donations with a suggested amount of say £3-£10 and you will receive more revenue globally than trying to charge someone £30 for a one off piece of software.

Radiohead did it and while the headlines suggest many people took it for free, many people also contributed (but that's not newsworthy). 1.2million downloads. 38% paid an average of $2.26 each. (ref Comscore). Revenue equalling over a million dollars with no record company fees to pay and that was just the download. Many of those who downloaded and enjoyed are soaking up the CD format of the music becasue they tried it and want a copy on traditional media to keep and store. Enough to keep them going for a while?

Invite collaboration by users, make it open source code and you will reduce your development time.

Time to move away from the dark ages of sitting in a dark room developing a product on your own to charge as much as you think people will pay.

Collaboration.

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Pirate

A pox on PRQ

It isn't just about films and music, I work in the technology magazine sector as a freelancer, and for several years found our magazine widely pirated and circulated as PDFs on the web. File sharing sites like Rapidshare are a haven for this. (Hard to believe, I know. :-/) We successfully shut down one of these 'tracker' websites having located it in Europe and setting detectives on the case, so they migrated the site to... Sweden, where it's hosted by PRQ.se (PirateBay & Co.)

Big-bucks Hollywood film producers have plenty of fat to survive but small publishers, musicians and photographers are being destroyed by copyright theft. PRQ.se will host pretty much anything and they trade purely on the fact that web sites (tracker sites) that merely host links to illegal copies of copyrighted work are not illegal in Sweden. As such, PRQ promotes the active theft of legitimate intellectual property.

So once we've given up and seen our readership evaporate in a puff of smoke, there will be one less specialist magazine for enthusiasts to read.

May Gottfrid Svartholm & Co choke on a crayfish.

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Pirate

@paul fox

If tpb were really making $200k a day, don't you think they would have been able to go on with their plan to buy sealand?

Whatever happened to logical thinking?

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Pirate

So the RIAA think that by closing one site down it will solve their loss of income...

So the RIAA think that by closing one site down it will solve their loss of income... hmm or maybe close one site down, 10 spring up in its place in a country which doesn't care too much about what American big business thinks.

Perhaps if the RIAA worked with places like the Pirate Bay and employed decent technical staff rather than layers they wouldn't be in the state they are currently in and would have a sensibly priced industry wide online music distribution mechanism. Roll over and die RIAA and big record companies you missed your boat and are irrelevant now.

Plus I agree its not illegal to "point" to copyrighted material which is all the pirate bay is technically doing.

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Anonymous Coward

Title

I think that a lot of this problem is caused by the copyright system presently used.

There is something vaguely ludicrous in someone spending, say a week, creating something, and then expecting to get paid for the same week's work, time and time again, for the rest of their life. And even more ludicrous to simply spend a few hours playing and recording someone else's creation; and yet also expect to be paid over and over for their few hours work.

If I write a software application, I get paid the once for the time I spent creating it. Or, say, if I employ a builder to build a wall for me, then again he or she gets paid the once. Why should it be different for other people, performing other comparable tasks?

The existing system seems to cause more problems than it is worth and is in desperate need of replacing. Not that it would be easy; it needs a good brainstorming session to come up with reasonable alternative suggestions.

2 areas to sort. Creators and Investors.

1) Those involved in the creation must be properly rewarded for the hours they put in, at a rate applicable to their talent. This is much the same as already occurs for any other product, for example a potter selling the pots they've created.

2) Those paying the creators need to recover any investment costs, plus a reasonable level of profit as an incentive. But how long do they need in order to achieve that? And how much should that add to the cost of a single end product?

Recovery of any initial investment would be split between the price of many many sold items, so the investment recovery proportion of a single end product price, should be insignificantly small.

Covering just a few hours or even weeks work, even if one adds in a portion to cover marketing (which ought not be needed at any great level for any decent artiste anyway) and mixing etc., should surely not need more than a few months of exclusive selling rights.

If investors find they are failing to cover costs by then, then maybe they are in the wrong business, having insufficient ability to distinguish that which will sell at a particular price, from that which will not?

Sell something in vast numbers and you have a commodity that should have just a small profit on each item. Clearly competition hasn't achieved that with the existing copyright laws in place.

With such a system, what incentive is there to pirate ? Cost to the individual would be hardly any different, and so folk would tend to deliberately chose to buy from legitimate sources. And investors receive a fair level of profit from the numbers sold.

And after the short exclusive period why shouldn't it become public domain? We know a disk costs next to nothing, and in any case downloaders provide the disks for themselves. Prices are mainly related to distribution (which for a someone downloading files, they're already paying their ISP / telephone company for). Piracy would cease to exist at this point onwards.

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Paris Hilton

Sounds familiar...

"The International Federation of the Phonographic Industries (IFPI) has slammed The Pirate Bay, >>> saying that it was not motivated by "idealism" and a love of music but was only interested in making bundles of cash.<<< "

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Linux

Paul Fox estimated revenue

$800'000K per day revenue, not bad

Note: See what I did there.

Sources please.

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Re: Regardless of...

It isn't theft. That's why we can see this theft as noble. Because it isn't theft.

That isn't saying it's RIGHT.

Being fined £500 for littering isn't theft, neither is it right, but it CAN happen in some places. We don't accuse the council responsible of theft though.

So now we've got that out of the way, how about considering this. There is no free market on monopoly goods and copyright is a monopoly. The only way the market can work is if there's an alternative and then the market can decide what the real worth of a good is. An piracy is that alternative.

At some point of monopoly pricing, copyrighted goods will be cheap enough that, although some would still pirate for free, most are buying legitimately. Enough so that reducing the price would lose more revenue from those already paying more than the increased revenue from those that were pirating.

And that is the sweet spot in the price/demand curve.

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Thumb Up

Pirate = thief, look it up.

Pirate Bay and all other P2P file stealing sites should be shut down and the principals of the sites as well as those who share files on the sites should be fined and put in jail.

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Anonymous Coward

@Pirate = thief, look it up.

Jail would be too good for them, take all their posessions and share them out. See how they like it.

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Anonymous Coward

@Logic incorrect? WTF.

@Logic incorrect

Do you really think that the people who downloaded it would have purchased it anyway ?? I think not... Only a tiny % of illegal downloads result in loss of revenue since most downloaders would NEVER have purchased the product anyway."

My logic is correct. If they were prevented from downloading it free, they would have to buy it if they wanted to have the benefit of using it. As for wanting to try out our product before parting with their money, there are many reviews both online and in magazine print singing the products praise. We also offer a 30 day money back guarantee if they don't like the product.

Do you expect to eat a meal in a restaurant before deciding if you are going to pay?

THEFT not ideology however you look at it.

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Anonymous Coward

Meals

Dunno about you, but I don't eat the same meal each day for a month or more.

They do allow one to sample the wine before pouring though.

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Whats stopping you...

from flooding the torrent sites with your own torrents? I'm talking to you, the guy with the flight sim stuff!

Release a real shareware version, not one of these enter code now jobbies, but one with a time limit or fly one of 3 planes for 5 mins or something. Why not fill the airports with adverts for the full version, it's just a texture. Why not write your companies email address down the runway?

Then people can try your flight sim, and they have the contact details, and the torrent sites are flooded with torrents for links to the shareware.

Just had a better idea, why not release a base package completely free? The engine and a geographical area and a plane or 2, then just charge for more areas, scenery, aircraft etc...if they like it they'll buy the extras and if they don't they obviously don't like the product enough.

Not too difficult I would have thought....

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Silver badge
Happy

@ copyright holders

at the end of the day, its your own fault TPB exists.

The product you made wasn't being supplied in the format that your Market wanted it in is- near instantaneous download, so the free Market did its thing, it filled the gap. Evwntually filling the gap hit critical mass, and now a fair value for these works is lower than before, yet the official route is still valued at the same level, so the free Market continues to do its thing.

Maybe next time you'll embrace, not attempt to extinguish.

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Anonymous Coward

Aiding and abetting

Even though the owners of Pirate Bay say they are not breaking the law, they blame the people using the site, the owners, by providing the links are guilty of aiding and abetting.

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/assisting_crime.htm

I am sure that similar laws apply in Sweden. The Swedish Government must uphold the law and make an example of these people.

Jail them!

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