Clearly the consumer couldn't give a DAB.

Odd, how two of the most Euro-sceptic nations are the only ones where DAB has taken off to popular levels?

is this because these two nations are particulary technophile?

or

DAB transmission inhibit the dark waves that brussells transmits turning all though under its influence into Euromonkeys.

A coincidence or conspiricy!?

Maybe DAB transmissions also make you partial to a decent bacon sandwich?

...sounds like the UK. And to be honest, 'clear digital-quality sound' in itself is something of an obfuscation; in this country Radio 3 is the only station to broadcast digitally at a decent bitrate.

Another way to read the story is that really, without the BBC pushing digital on us nonstop (have you ever stopped to listen to those freakin ads on Radio 5 every 10 minutes?!), even the UK wouldn't be making much headway with digital radio. It really is an answer in need of a question, particularly in its current format.

That's what you get from me. To be honest, the word "digital" is being used as a marketing tool rather than a specific description of any real benefit and, given the nature of DAB and some of the pitfalls of using it compared with traditional radio, the benefits to us end users are marginal at best compared with what benefits the broadcasters get out of it.

IMHO, Germany has the right of it here.

...to tune in digitally. Thankfully the radio I have has an FM receiver, so it's not completely useless.

I can't say I'm surprised by this event.

Am I missing something? DAB is great. I have crystal clear reception in my home and office. My alarm clock radio can pause Radio 1 while I have a shower. I can record direct to SD cards. I have EPG. I never wonder what a song I hear is called. Whats not to like? I think I must have missed something on my old crackly radios.

Am I being dumb here? I thought that the point of digital broadcasting was that it used less bandwidth than analogue. Thus, if we can successfully transition consumers from their old crystal sets to DAB receivers, we can (maybe in 25-30 years time) repurpose the old analogue part of the spectrum for digital use, and get better value from it.

It's a long game and that's why we need independent commissioners - so they can take the long-term view without too much interference from commercial pressures and (ptui!) democratic governments, both of which are characterised by an extremely short-term outlook.

Following a previous Reg story (linked below) I sent the following to: enquiries@culture.gov.uk on 26 November 2007, FAO: James Purnell (as of today I've only recieved a confirmation of receipt):

Re: The "Digital Radio Working Group"

Dear Mr Purnell,

If (and it's a big "if")...

... the shoddy DAB broadcast quality is a mere technicality that could be overcome and that DAB could broadcast everything at at least the wholly "good enough" FM standard...

...when the signal becomes weak, the sound wouldn't crumble into white noise and the audio were to remain vaguely listenable...

...manufacturers could install it into every car by default...

...the price of the hardware was at least half of what it is now...

...the design of the hardware could be vastly improved to develop beyond "retro", "woody", or "50s space-age" (smiles go to the Marshall Amp one though)...

...and the energy consumption of hardware could be reduced to match that of FM...

...if they could resolve those 6 technical issues, DAB is still left with quality issue.

It has the megre USP of having only 3 niche BBC stations (+ 2 AM talk stations) on offer. That's it: 6music/1Xtra/BBC7 - stations with a combined listening share of less than 1% according to RAJAR figures.

I'll generously add points for 5Live/TalkSport, as they're on AM and a very very few FM radios don't receive AM but we're still only around the 5% mark. Apart from that, BBC R1-R4 are on FM, so no points there. Remarkably, the dire commercial filler stations do have perfectly adequate equivalents on FM too, yet people do listen to them, so i'll add another 5% to listener figures.

But those 3(+2) stations are all as "free" side offerings on on TV (Freeview/Virgin/Sky). And the internet.

And pausing and rewinding live radio iof very little use. Those are bloody minded enough to record DAB radio will use a DVB-T USB stick with their PC (and then pass out due to acronym-itis).

For those that want real choice beyond FM, Wi-Fi internet radios are an ever more sensible option for wireless households and will render DAB in the home a nonsense. Unfortunately that doesn't help government revenue generation by way of the sale of radio spectrum though, does it?

Yet with all of the above being blindingly obvious, the government is still wondering why sales figures for radios are meagre when DAB only stations have only attracted a 10% or so market share thus far and a DAB radio is only of any use in a bedroom without digital TV or a kitchen.

All of the above is blindingly obvious and there's still the need for a taskforce?

Yours in disbelief,

[Me]

[My Location] (a member of the small "6music in the bedroom" demographic).

PS: You'll also be wanting to read the comments to the recent news story carried on TheRegister.co.uk (at "www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/23/dab_working_group/") and the Channel 4 News Forum (at "community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/503603557/m/6530046049" ) before going any further with the Digital Radio Working Group.

PPS: Where, and to whom, do I send my consulatation fee invoice?

Seems it could be if you've never heard of a DAB car radio.

I actually have a DAB radio in my car (peugeot RT4 standard fit) but it has no convincing reason for DAB. The only way I noticed was the scrolling banner on the dashboard display , really annoying catching it out of the corner of your eye, otherwise it's a radio to listen to. So what's new? Don't listen to the radio except in the car so won't buy a DAB radio.

I also have digital TV in my house, Freeview and SKY, just for the range of channels available mainly. Still can't find anything worth watching sometimes from 100's of channels. The digital wizzardry doesn't mean a lot to me except for the electronic program guide which saves the hassle of going to teletext and selecting page 120 or 606.

So remind me again , apart from making loads of dosh for the goverment from selling the frequency, why are we switching to digital?

I was working in the BBC R&D Dept when DAB was being developed. It was designed as a mobile transmission system. They always made great emphasis on the "single frequency network", but it was never implemented. They now sell off the multiplexes to the highest bidder and are trying to use it for local radio services. It was never intended for this purpose. They never installed the fill-in transmitters so it's useless as a mobile medium. In north Surrey its pretty useless even for home use, you need a roof-top aerial to get a decent signal.

...and they intend to shut down the FM service in a few years. Unless they implement DAB the way is was designed it will never happen.

for it to work the consumer has to have no choices. if I go out an buy a radio, I'll buy a Radio, I won't think "ooo it must have DAB" - because that's not true, if they said they were turning analog radio off, then I might change.

we're told analog tv will be turned off in the next few years (before 2012) will I get a digital picture before then?

I'm in Basingstoke, infact, I'm in the center of Basingstoke.and I get no digital picture. my nearest antenna is Hannington. that's about 8 miles "As the crow flies" - 8 miles is hardly a big distance.

My Girlfriends house is a mere 3 miles, infact from her window I can see the antena. she can't get any BBC Channel most of the time, apart from BBC Parliment, and she gets E4+1 but not E4.

I know the TV and the Radio streams are a little different, but they're all broadcast from the same place, they're both using the same technology, and quite frankly, it's shite.

I'm now paying Branson £30 / month so I can watch his Virgin TV. when some people get "Freeview".... but at least the virgin TV does work.....sort of.

DAB works just fine in my Vectra - don't have much call for reading the extra text etc when driving though. The bog-standard Vauxhall ICE doesn't have it, but most of the upgrade options do. It came free with the 6-CD version. Look for ones with something that looks like a black PC mouse clinging onto the base of the roof-mounted aerial instead of the slim version on either the base or satnav versions. Ignore any with the Mickey Mouse thing clinging to the pointy end...

The only place I've noticed it fail was beyond the far end of Stranraer, next to what looked like a military antenna installation. Course, that's the advantage of FM - like any analogue signal, it degrades instead of cutting out completely. Where I live, (in a big northern city, so, like you, not exactly in the sticks), digital TV is very patchy, with even the BBC channels breaking up at times, so whilst digital is a nice idea (lower bandwidth, more info on the side etc), it's needs better coverage in all formats.

What'll do it in for DAB and not for DVB-T is the same argument as in Germany - unless the analogue is pulled, folk won't feel the need to shift. So, we'll be forced to have Digital TV, and hope that when the analogue signals are switched off that the power will then be boosted to cover weak areas. We won't be forced across to DAB because there's no intention of shutting down FM. After all, LW is still around - FM hasn't replaced all that went before.

Freeview is a bit ropey but most of the time it's ok (ie, when not watching sport or other fast moving footage in which case it really is crap) and I no longer have a snowy Channel 5 or those two bands that ran down the screen ever since they built Canary Wharf and the Gherkin.

But DAB is just rubbish.

There are a few stations that kind of sound ok but most have a flat sound or you get that 'grainy shimmer' like when you listen to online radio stations over dialup. This site pretty much sums it up, the BFSB and Rainbow Radio clips sound digitally dire. blip.tv/file/597632

And people look down their noses at AM radio yet in 2008 new music radio stations are still appearing on DAB in grainy *mono*! How much of a step backwards is that? At least AM music sounds warm and has the excuse that it's decades old.

I listen to some shows on BBC7 but normally do it using a television rather than a proper radio because it's twice the sound quality and in stereo.

If it isn't possible to have a dedicated radio system that sounds good, why not abandon the whole thing and let people get good quality radio from FM, Sky/Freeview or broadband. Surely there are enough FM stations to cater for peoples' "rights" to have free radio. If they want the luxury of having scores of stations then get a Wi-Fi radio and broadband. (Just not Tiscali though, eh...)

Test Match Special, 'nuff said.

IMO DAB has failed because car manufacturers don't fit it to cars. Add to that problem those of inadequate bit rates on most channels and a poor quality transmitter network and you've got a flop. I use DAB in my bedroom radio and I like it - I like BBC7 and 6Music, I like the ease of tuning and the extra programme info and the sound quality is better overall (indoor aerial) than my FM tuner.

I've long found it frustrating that I can't have DAB in my car, and now expect the system to die a long, slow, sad death. Shame, maybe use the band for an IP-based system?

I've had a car DAB for about a year now and love it. In fact I've changed my car and kept the radio I liked it so much. And today I bought a Roberts DAB for the kitchen.

Sure, the sound quality isn't as rich as a good FM signal, but lets be honest, in a car humming along at 70mph you'e not going to hear the occasional imperfection. Ditto in a noisy kitchen. We're not talking component hifi here.

I like the selection of stations available and the additional info displayed. The pause function is a novelty, but I suppose it could be useful if you need a pee but really want to hear the footy scores...

Yep, I'm a convert :) Lets hope DAB+ will be an improvement to the signal quality.

DAB is bollocks anyway - crappy reception in all houses I've lived in the last 4 years (about 5 houses) - that's hertfordshire, hampshire, cheshire and Greater Manchester.... I'm just glad my dab radio also had analogue or I'd be very upset!! For me, interweb streams are the future... my N95 is my radio, and I use it to listen to all my faverite channels in the same way I can on the pc in winamp... and they are at decent bitrates too, and with buffering there is no drops or pops.

It helps that my phone is usually always near a wifi router, or a decent 3g signal... but in the 10+ years people talk about in terms of upgrading radio technologies, I'm betting that wifi/wirelessusb/fibrenetworks etc will have come along so far as to basically blanket the UK/Europe in a thick web cloud that nobody will be able to leave!! :)

... so DAB can tell me what radio station I'm listening to? So can my RDS radio in my dodgy 10 year old Jag. So, DAB can tell me what song I'm listening to? So can the fucking RADIO SHOW PRESENTER. Easier tuning? What's difficult about turning a dial, or pressing a preset button? DAB: Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

ZZZZZzzzzzz......

I've had DAB in car/kitchen/hi-fi for 4 years now and don't regret a moment of it, what really sucks though is the Beebs transmitters are rubbish, commercial DAB transmitters have a much better output and give a much better reception than any BBC channel, same with freeview, BBC4 (my favourite channel) is unwatchable most nights, so I've gone the beardie V+ route mainly for BBC4, but the BBC HD channel is great eye candy, the problem really lies with the Beeb's cheapo implementation of the standard, if price is a problem for car users, try the Pure Highway, £69.99, fits in 10 minutes, runs on 2 AA batteries, and can be used with headphones as a portable, also upgradeable via usb....

I have a digital radio, but the only station I can receive digitally is Virgin, and that doesn't always work. I mainly use it as a normaly FM radio. And it isn't digital radio I have a problem with, the digital TV signal isn't brilliant. I have to frequently retune the digital box and I can't get the full range of channels. Often I can't get channel 4 through digital, which is the only way I can watch it because I live in Wales and get S4C instead, and there is only so much Pobol y Cwm I can stand.

My experience of digital TV has been that it sucks. I'm not surprised that other experiences of digital radio are similarly bad. Why do I think digital TV is awful? Well, of my last 3 abodes, 2 have been wholly and completely unable to receive any digital channels, and 1 has only been able to receive a handful of channels. If my last 3 houses were in Outer Mongolia I could understand that. But 2 of them have been inside zone 2 in London, and the other in a city.

In my last place I gave up and got Sky. Great reception, shame the hardware they provide is so flaky.

The receivers are too big. They're too expensive. Battery life is too short. Reception isn't good enough; plain old FM works fine with the antenna down, DAB only works with it fully extended.

Give me a 20 quid Sony tranny any time over a 70 quid Sony DAB

I've had DAB since the early days in my car, when I was crazy enough to go and purchase a Blaupunkt Woodstock. Since then I have moved to the States and used Sirius (where I could listen to Radio 1 in excellent quality), and now back to the UK where my new German car (6 months old and bloody expensive) can NOT have DAB retrofitted (thanks to this news I can now see why!!!).

We can all whine about the technology (not as good as FM, breaks up, etc.), but radio is a predominately in-car medium from a marketing/business perspective. The breakfast show used to traditionally make/break the success of a station, and whilst the ability to tune around has greatly changed this (particularly in relation to the afternoon drive show), the essence of listening while driving to work is still a key element of radio's success.

I live in South East London (someone has to!), and drive an hour to work every day. Because my journey is between Wrotham and Crystal Palace I lose the upper end of the audio spectrum due to a compromise that's had to be made so that people in South West and Central London can get a better signal. Couple that with the pirates who broadcast on every "spare" frequency (basically over Radio 1, 2, 3, 4, Classic, and between every local station) and it makes for a pretty undesirable experience thanks to the RDS handover attempts.

DAB, whilst not being perfect is operational, and in the thousands of miles I have driven around the UK (rural and urban) it's stood up pretty well. We have an urban spectrum shortage on the FM band, and unless we re-architect the entire band plan we're stuck with a need to upgrade to something more efficient.

So, car manufacturers - stop being cheapskates and make this technology standard. There is a trend for much cheaper DAB radios in the high street stores now so that no one can really complain about the price, but cars are where we are really missing out. AM and LW services will sooner or later switch to Digital Radio Mondiale but that's not common yet, so it's excusable that hasn't been widely adopted.

/rant

Ps. Germany phased out Analogue TV in some places a year or two ago. Doesn't seem to be really progressive in the radio world does it?

I have seen a lot of negative comments about DAB.

I listen to my radio mainly in the bedroom and in my car.

I bought the now famous EVOKE-1 by PURE several years ago and have not looked back since.

DAB offers four big advantages over FM.

1) Wide choice of stations including DAB only content. I get 54 stations in North West London where I live

2) In an area of good reception (which is most of the country) I get hiss and crackle free listening with no fade in or fade out

3) It's easy to use, I don't need to remember or look up station frequency's and I can change channel with the push of a button almost instantly

4) I have access to great features like ReVu on my PURE EVOKE-3, the ability to programme and record to a memory card (great when I am on holiday) I have a line in for my iPOD and also access to EPG (Electronic Programme Guide)

DAB is not perfect, but I think its better and more available than Freeview which I agree is at the best of times terrible.

Also you can get a quality DAB radio with excellent battery life from as little as £50!

Germany is unlikely to 'switch off' DAB, see the link below and read the article below:

http://www.worlddab.org/upload/uploaddocs/German_Press_Release_Final_English.pdf

I think the future is bright for DAB, the UK is growing rapidly and with products like the new PURE Highway we will see more in car DAB. As far as Europe goes, forward thinking countries like Denmark have already embraced DAB and many others will adopt the new DAB+ standard.

The futures bright, the future's DAB!

In response to:

DAB radios are waaaaay too expensive

By Finnbar

>> Do you call £30 expensive? I don't!

Hi Tom,

what you are talking about is digital terrestrial TV (DVB-T) trying to deliver radio instead of a tv independent system.

It's exactly what KEF recommends and it's exactly the wrong way!

Digital is not the problem, but bad digital not fitting to the task can be a problem. Digital TV is not aimed at being used at travelling speed either.

Interesting comment re-the analogue signal for the telly being deliberately degraded (or at least delivered in such a way as to ensure an inferior signal)

Anyway, there's no such thing as an FM band, or an AM one for that matter. There's Long Wave and Medium Wave and Short Wave(lots of those) and there's Very High Frequency (these are all names for a range of frequencies on which radio waves may be transmitted) but there doesn't appear to be a Frequency Modulated or an Amplitude Modulated radio band, so any comments with reference to such things are clearly worthless and written in ignorance.

May I suggest Charades? If lacking a good-quality wireless signal, then this wonderfully stimulating parlour game, negates a need for the dross churned out on Radio1.

£30 will buy you a clunky, tinny, mono DAB radio, or perhaps a slightly better spec'd refurbished & discontinued factory repack from Richer Sounds on a good day.

But £30 will buy you a nice sounding stereo FM radio with a bass boost that doesn't make the sound muffled that you can turn up a lot louder than the DAB sets, especially on headphones.

Good DAB radios can cost a relative fortune, such as the Pure Evoke 3 or Roberts RD50 for £200, and they're still just kitchen radios! They're not "hi-fi" quality and even if they were most of the stations you can pick up are not. Many aren't even in stereo! I'm not even sure if you can buy an FM radio for £200 that doesn't include a tape or CD, but if you could it would certainly sound an awful lot better. FM pirates sound a lot better than many legal DAB stations.

And the cheapest car radios cost £9.99. How much for DAB?

This is the problem with DAB. The advocates keep promoting the £30 sets because they're too embarrased to admit you need to spend over £100 to get a half decent stereo one and when people buy the cheap ones they're left unimpressed.

Nice to hear the worry about DAB being another betamax getting good coverage on tonight's Chris Evans show on Radio 2 (available on Listen Again in the first hour of the show).