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back to article Bush orders NSA to snoop on US agencies

Not content with spying on other countries, the NSA (National Security Agency) will now turn on the US's own government agencies thanks to a fresh directive from president George Bush. Under the new guidelines, the NSA and other intelligence agencies can bore into the internet networks of all their peers. The Bush administration …

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Anonymous Coward

Domestic spying

He authorizes them to monitor the internet. i.e. he's authorized the NSA, an agency riddled with political appointees, to intercept domestic internet traffic prior to an election.

And the government agencies, they're to be concentrated into 50 connections to the net. It makes them more vulnerable by by creating bottlenecks, but it happens to also make them easier to monitor for leaks.

The 'cyber' attack stuff is rubbish, a DDOS isn't a strike from a government to another government. Nobody cares if the FBI's website goes down, because only the FBI's admin bothers to read it.

Nobody care's if someone DDOS's a powerstations *website*, because only an idiot thinks that the network controlling the powerstation and the one running the website is the same thing.

"The Pentagon can plan attacks on adversaries' networks if, for example, the NSA determines that a particular server in a foreign country needs to be taken down to disrupt an attack on an information system critical to the U.S. government. That could include responding to an attack against a private-sector network, such as the telecom industry's, sources said."

Or they could bar the IP address on their own servers, if they enabled the auto features in Linux, it would automatically bar bandwidth hogs. Since these features are built into the OS.

But shockingly even if they didn't do that, the Whitehouse.gov web server goes down, the world still moves on, the President doesn't hop in his jet to feel safe and nobody notices. It's just a website.

"There has been a string of attacks on networks at the State, Commerce, Defense and Homeland Security departments in the past year and a half. U.S. officials and cyber-security experts have said Chinese Web sites were involved in several of the biggest attacks back to 2005, including some at the country's nuclear-energy labs and large defense contractors."

Attacking what? Their websites? If it was critical systems they wouldn't have it internet facing, so it's not a critical system.

"cyber-security experts have said Chinese Web SITES were involved"

Web SITES? You see? They even think the website of www.mysite.cn is the same computer as the machine polling their websites. As though an attacker advertises themselves by running Apache and putting up a site on the same machine doing the attack.

No, this is rubbish, it's just an excuse to let the NSA monitor the US internet.

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Awesome

That's all I can say.

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Tim

Cyber War

Not content with not winning any old fashioned wars in a while, the US government are already gearing up for the next generation of unwinnable wars.

How many innocent CPU's will suffer just so they can save face?

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Alien

Paranoia bites deep

Quis custodiet ipsos custodies?

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Flame

Hey George

Bite Me you A$$ hole!

Signed

A US citizen who was (past tense!) proud of his country before you Fire-trucked it up.

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

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Black Helicopters

Land of the free

It is good to see George raising paranoia levels to new heights in the never ending pursuit of democracy.

The founding fathers would be proud.

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Alert

So dumb

Agencies should be responsible for their own security, as should everyone. Anything else is going to be a giant sinkhole for money. That said, I'm starting to believe bankrupting the country is Bush's intention. He's not dumb, you know, though people like to imagine he is.

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Paris Hilton

Consider -

*Even if* congress blocks the extension or expansion of FISA -

this presidential directive gives the NSA the authority to 'wiretap' EVERY private (US citizen and not) communication with ANY govt body -

Local, state, federal

Paris - 'cause she makes more sense than the drivel Bush is trying to use to pass off this directive

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Pirate

Foregive me..

if I seem naive, but I thought the Dept of Homeland Security was a organisation of defence not offence. "while the Department of Homeland Security and Pentagon will concentrate on retaliation."

@Paranoia by AC

Nobody - it seems!

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Boffin

Can you tell who it is yet?

Come on, he isn't on strings for the hawks in the Pentagon/Global Oil Pirates or anyone else. Nobody who can simultaneously deal with the worst attack on the USA since Pearl Harbour AND read My Pet Goat (UPSIDE DOWN) can be that stupid.

He's got a plan, you wait and see.

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Alien

Plan Mastery ..... AIDigital Processing

"In addition, the international community has yet to address the rules of cyber war in any meaningful way" .....I disagree and would present the following in defense and in support of that disagreement.

CyberIntelAIgent Rules of Engagement ..... Memoranda of Understanding

Rule No 1..... There are no Rules

Rule No 2...... Don't Play by the Rules

Rule No 3 ...... Rule Wisely by and within the Rules

Rule No 4 ...... The Wisest of the Wise Rule without the Need or Heed of Rules

Rule No 5 ..... Beware and be Aware of Rule Makers for they are the Breaker of Rules

Rule No 6 ...... What you Give is what you Get.

Rule No 7 ....... Play be these Rules and there will be Virtual Peace in Real Time

Rule No 8 ........ Follow the MasterPlan

Rule No 9 ..... Don't Break these Rules, Improve upon them.

"He's got a plan, you wait and see." ...... By I.Aproveofitspendingonspecificprojects Posted Monday 28th January 2008 05:28 GMT ....... And that always means that there is no plan.

CyberSpace is not Real, it is a Virtual Intellectual Space Created for the Free Flow XXXXChange of Ideas. The Fool will use the XXXXChange to exploit with Bad Ideas whilst the Sage will exploit the XXXXChange with Beta Ideas.

And Anonymised and Anonymous Ideas are Worthless as Value cannot be directly Attributed with ITs Just Reward.

Please Feel Free to Comment on and in such AI SurReal Space for IT is AIBeta Control Parameter/Facility for Unified and Unifying Governance and Virtual Government.

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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.

What, spy on our own spies as they spy on their spies?

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Alien

So

So we have the spies spying on fellow spies because no one else can see for the fog of propaganda and misinformation has clouded their minds like a bunch of scientologists on a summer picnic with an e-meter !

In the interim USS Amerika with twenty five trillion down the plughole and all the oil fuel tanks are empty thus the ship of state is sinking deeper into the morass of paranoia whilst the bridge crew are running around like a bunch of headless chicken little's and the engine room has been abandoned and the crew are following faithfully behind the bridge crew because they don't know what else to do and since neither trust the passengers they have locked them all up below decks for the fear that they make rational decisions and stage a mutiny to toss the entire insane irrational crew over board !

Now that sounds like the story thus far , correct me if I am wrong !

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Anonymous Coward

An attack on my Blog is an attack on my nation

NSA: "We detect multiple failed FETCH calls to the presidents website"

NSA: "IP addresses detected, Romanian! Looks like Terrorists have infiltrated the Romanian Government."

CIA: "Quick get the President to Airforce one IMMEDIATELY!"

NSA: "It's worse than we thought, some of those IP addresses are INSIDE THE USA! Noooooo! A terrorist called Googlebot from 64.68.80.0 is thrashing the presidents website to within an inch of it's life!"

CIA: "If the presidents website goes down, all is lost."

NSA: "Sir, we've started an attack on the Romania Presidents personal blog, and a DDOS on his daughters MySpace page, but so far it's not working!"

President: "We have to fight them over there so we don't fight them here. Everyone reads my website, to get guidance on their daily lives from their honored leader. If they bring down my website there will be anarchy!".

CIA: "Sir, I recommend we go nuclear."

President: "Nuclear?"

CIA: "Sorry sir, I meant Nuke-ular".

President: "Well an attack on my web site is an attack on Freedom! Nuke away."

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Silver badge

Possibly???

"The Bush administration pulled off this spy expansion by pointing to an increase in the number of cyber attacks directed against the US, POSSIBLY from foreign nations."

From the same investigatory agencies that brought you WMDs in Iraq.

They should close the NSA, CIA. FBI and a few others that aren't so well publicised and get in the MPAA and RIAA. They'd identify the source with 100% accuracy and start action against them bypassing the need for Colin Powell to go to the UN and menacingly wave a vial of baking soda around.

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Dead Vulture

Dumb or dumber?

Bush is either stupid or malicious. I guess if he's not as dumb as we think, he's more malicious.

Is he malicious enough to add embuggerances to his successor's reign just because nobody wants him in power any more?

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Anonymous Coward

Paranoia

Bring back McCarthy!

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Heart

Good old Bush

Nothing like a bit of Cold War Paranioa to help the world get along....

Don't bother me none, I won't be living in the land of the free, banned from 90% of the countries of the world by it's own Goverment as they MAY be evil.

Still nice to go to places like Cuba and NOT hear the tourists from 5 miles away....

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Anonymous Coward

@Dumb or Dumber

Reminds me of one of my favourite "laws". Hanlon's Razor (not as in shaving) which states "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

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What's the difference?

Spying on our computers, or video-taping people in all public areas -- what's the difference? One is no more paranoid or unjustified than the other.

In England, police have the authority to enter your home and poke around anytime, day or night, without a warrant. (The only exception made is for those households none of whose members own legal firearms.)

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Stop

Coming To Your Neighborhood Soon...A Fascist Police State

Well, Bush DOESN'T make policy (he's too stupid), he just does what he's told. The real brains is the Satanic Cheney and the Demonic Axis of Evil around him, the neo-cons in positions of influence in the current junta.

The US is morphing into a vicious Fascist Police State, which will be fully installed by the time the US economy and financial system implodes.

America is rotting at its foundation and this house of cards will come tumbling down before too long. We in America are in for a real nightmare.

The internment camps are ready and waiting.

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Silver badge

@Frank Silbermann

"The only exception" made is for those households none of whose members own legal firearms.

Your use of "the only exception" shows your ignorance of British life. The number of people who legally own a firearm in Britain is incredibly small so the exception applies to just about every household barring the odd farm.

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me
Unhappy

where can I run??

Is it this bad in jolly ol' england? Seems likes you brits always play "follow the leader". Well, Bush is no leader! Don't follow him! I wonder anymore, seems like Russia may be more of a free country than the current USA. Well, I have to go now, the FBI/DHS/CIA/NSA is here to take me away for treason.

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Black Helicopters

@ BulldikeMcGirk

I do believe you might have a point - In Germany, the rise of the Nazi party in the 1930's was due partly to their effect on the German economy - all of a sudden, the Deutschemark was worth something again, and the people followed them through atrocity, started by relief, buoyed by greed, and finally ran by fear. History repeating itself? well, the Nazi party got a lot of it's eugenics policies from the states (some laws are still in effect over there), they just expanded upon it. So it's not improbable that by bringing the country to it's knees, destroying it's economy, having a rest for a couple of terms, and bingo - instant dictatorship. Democratically elected by the supreme court .... Come on - all you people in the American Armed Forces, the police forces, and the rest, just say no. If you say no, who's going to be left to pull the trigger ?

Definitely a black helicopter year ..... I'm moving to mars; sucking near vacuum is a load better than sucking this sh**.

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Joke

Wargames

Shall we play a game?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/

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@ where can I run??

Canada.

Almost no spying going on up up there - privately or governmentally.

I'm leaving in July.

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Alien

@Wargames

"Shall we play a game?"..... By Rick Posted Monday 28th January 2008 14:56 GMT

Rick ,

Maybe Ms Porter will Pow Wow the Macho Homocentric Elements with an Alternate Reality Game that the Dollar can Create and ReBuild itself at home with. ...... although Peace doesn't pay them the way that War does ...... and you have to be able to Think ahead with Positive Executive Orders rather than creating Chaos to respond to with a Big Stick ........ http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20080109_release.pdf

Although Pale Face, he talk with Fork Tongue, Kemo Sabe, always Talk Democracy but always Deliver and Lead with War Machinery. MeThink, Boss, they have nothing else Beta to Sell of Value. I wonder if they would be Interested in Fronting AI Franchise? Me know aman who knows of AIRmen into Global Perceptions Management Research and dDevelopment. Heap Good Medicine, Kemo Sabe.

Crazy Horse Boffin not so crazy horse Boss. :-)

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3x2

Ministry of Truth, Ministry of Peace ....

[the only exception] those households none of whose members own legal firearms [..]

Which is just about everyone. The Application for a firearm in this country basically allows you to own a [single shot] hunting riffle or a shotgun but only if you are clean as the driven snow and have a real good reason.

AK-47 for duck hunting just won't pass, neither will a hand gun.

Coming To Your Neighborhood Soon [...]

Looks like its been here for a while and you are now in the later stages where agencies turn on each other. Like old Adolph you simply can't trust anyone. Once your Serfs are monitoring each other [see UK RIPA Act] and your DHS is monitoring your FBI who monitors them? You just never know who's guilty do you now?

The participants [from the bottom up] like to think that they are somehow exempt (nothing to hide - nothing to fear) until of course one day someone is monitoring their communications and associations. At that point they realize just exactly what they have helped to create.

papieren bitte?

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Paris Hilton

@solomon Grundy

wasn't there a deal between the CIA and the canadian equivalent a couple of years back that the CIA would spy on canadians and in return the canadians would spy on american citizens to circumvent the prohibition of the CIA working inside the US?

canadian govement is owned by the US, remember the avro arrow or Maher Arar?

PH because she know to assume a position which is a physical metaphor Canadian US cooperation

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Coat

Re: Domestic Spying

You'd like to think that the US government's websites and databases aren't so tightly joined. You'd also like to think that power plant websites and power plant control systems are completely separate.

Unfortunately, that's not always the case. At least, there have been outages in the past where the externally accessible site had issues causing problems for things which should have been strictly off-line, and both US government systems and US power plants have had these sorts of problems.

Personally, I think that the NSA should be probing the websites and other Internet accessible systems of the other branches of the US government and the state governments, but only to find and report vulnerabilities. I also think that the FBI and CIA should probably return the favor, and probe the NSA. (And have a friendly little competition between them, to see who can find the most holes first. Maybe even make it interesting, and give a 1% salary budget bonus to the winner each year (with said bonus being distributed as a 1% bonus to all employees of said department, not distributed however the department head deems best.))

The whole spying thing sounds dubious - that should be left to a government agency nobody knows about, IMHO. Like Control, for example.

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just another Joe Six pack

What's next? Political purges and concentration camps? Or cameras on every street corner like the poor brits have?

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Joke

Curious...

Seems the only winning choice is not to play.

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