Can you turn ugly pigs into swans ?
Redmond said yesterday that it has shot out another beta build of Windows Vista SP1, although this one is reserved for hardcore testers only. The latest updated release candidate – Windows Vista SP1 RC Refresh 2 – has been pumped out to an elite cadre of just 15,000 beta testers. Microsoft also offered up the usual fuzzy logic …
Can you turn ugly pigs into swans ?
Of course, if they'd taken that approach with Vista in the first place, they wouldn't need a service pack..........
Fancy releasing a service pack that may be delayed dependant on feedback. I think they shoud just give up, moan moan moan...Linux this, Mac that, Atari blah blah, C64 waffle waffle....
"Quality" - its one of those words that look promising on the surface, but once you start scratching away...
Quality control is about achieving CONSISTENCY not necessarily a better product.
So, with the 'final release being based on quality', what can we expect ? Something equally buggy, equally inefficient, and generally crap is my hunch.
Of course your own operating system which you wrote from scratch is obviously much more secure and will never require any updates ever because you obviously know more than MS about OSes.
Now lets hear from all the Apple fanbois and the Linux crew about how much better their operating systems are yada yada yada yawn yawn yawn.
Best comment ever.
Really.... Grow up. I didnt see TeeCee evangelising linux or apple. Merely pointing out that Vista is an unuseable piece of cr@p. I genuinely dont care what OS I use. I just want it to work. I bought a Dell laptop 6 months ago with vista and it is already slower than the 4 year old machine I bought it to replace. Dell arent interested as the software is guaranteed for a month. So thanks to MS I now have a £600 laptop thats about as much use as a dogs egg. Software that comes with cameras / phones etc dictates what OS I run. All I want is for is to work. Its an OS for gods sake. It should just run in the background and let me get on with my life. Is that too much to ask for ? MS is the only company in history that can FORCE you to but thier product, which has zero quality and then give you no comeback. Really, vista is a piece of **** and whoever sells it should be serving time in prison. Would you be so supportive if the manufacturer of you car or TV sold you perfectly working hardware, with software that rendered it useless?
I installed what might be considered RC2 a week or so ago,
and i'm not on any beta team.
RC1 wouldn't install on my machine.
Unfortunatley I can't say it's turned my Vista machine into
a dream machine.
Ummm....for many years that was the excuse for Vistas lateness - "it will be delivered when it's perfect!".
In the end it came down to marketing people pushing out a half-finished product because they "didn't want to miss another Xmas".
Here is the be-all, end-all. Vista sucks. Deal with it. It sucks because it assumes too much and remembers too little. It sucks because of a feature called UAC that would lose to a snail in a memory game. It sucks because it takes up too many resources. And I have 9 other reasons why it sucks. It just sucks no matter how you look at it. Windows Vista should have never been released. Windows XP and Windows 2000 are Microsoft's best work to date; Vista is a step back from that.
Hey El Reg
Again you and everyone else in the press is hammering away for every info about MS for the Vista SP1.
Screw Hasta La Vista.
You guys need to be on MS butt about SP3 for XP. They are intentionally delaying this SP3 as so to launch SP1 for Vista first. This in their mind is that Vista will be excepted instead of XP.
SP3 for XP should have been launched over a year ago and definately before SP1 for Vista.
Somewhere along the way Microsoft forgot what an operating system was supposed to be. Its not supposed to be the application, its supposed to be what the applications runs on. A simple go between uniting hardware with the software people wish to run on it. Think of the OS as a work truck that the apps use to get where theyre going. Well microsofts truck has curb feelers, hydraulics, leather seats, a sunroof, and pinwheels on the corners. What they dont tell you is the engine only runs on half its cylinders, the curb feelers are bent, the hydraulics leak, the leather seats are made of dog skin, and the pinwheels were stolen from two little kids running a lemonade stand. But gee doesnt it look good on paper.
So vista doesn't work for you. Use another OS then. Simple. Don't complain, do something about it. Oh wait, other manufacturer OS's don't run the software you need either. It's not as if Apple and Linux never break anything on purpose or forgo backwards compatibility in order to progress... No, wait, that's not true is it. Perhaps you shouldn't buy equipment that is reliant on the OS you hate the most and then you'll be ok.
So seriously, write your own OS that does what you want or use one that works for you. But for the love of god, shut up complaining about something when you have options!
So is that why they released it to the general public in January??? The December release was for business only and they don't normally worry about buying kit before christmas (although it could have coincided with many companies year ends).
<intro>I was always under the impression that a good operating system was one that provided a secure and reliable interface between the user, the is (s)he who sits in the chair - and the hardware that was simple to use. This seemless interface would then enable the user to make the most of the hardware.</intro>
<worship>M$ truely represents the world's greatest... yes I actually said "greatest".</worship>
<punchline>In any other software situation, a programme (or suite of programmes) that resulted in an appreciable loss of performance, an intermittent loss of data, impinged on your internet connection, reported information back to it's author blah blah blah.... would becalled a bloody virus.</punchline>
William Gates IIIrd is to be congratulated, for persuading over half the globe to fork out their hard-earned cash to continually re-purchase a virus, a bit like bird flu - hense the icon.
I wonder if M$ fixed Vista's Long Goodbye.
I don't like Vista. I don't like the fact that if they had to change *everything* why not break from legacy and actually provide the next level of OS.
The whole shooting match is poor, from having to retrain users to retraining staff because in your wisdom you've changed the deployment, your partners, suppliers and vendors were left facing yet another change in how the OS works, so the end users suffered with lack of drivers/bad drivers - the list with Vista goes on and on.
The best MS OS thus far, putting security aside, is Windows Server 2003, as a workstation.
Vista like ME before it is just an MS release to simply skip. Windows 7 or whatever the son of Vista gets called will probably actually be a very good OS, and some of the basic ideas in Vista will get ironed out.
Lets hope that this time they actually fix the MEMORY leakage from copy and the crashing when you have 64k of files in a directory, and the other howlers.
Lastly, I know this won't happen, but Windows gaming is now such a screwed up place that if someone *nudge* got their gaming support, API's and other offerings in place, its plausable that gaming on PC could escape 'windows'.
... and a service pack isn't going to fix that! The problems with Vista are not accidents, they are deliberate modifications to disk access, the networking stack, the video pipeline, etc, to *take control away* from the user, which happen to slow down the system in the process. It is the underlying philosophy of Vista that is flawed, and a dozen service packs won't fix that.
Yeah... A year ago when I first started using Vista, I wrote an article absolutely blowing this thing out of the water. I have now been using Vista on a new box for the last six months. It has caused me NO issues, not crashed, and runs like a scaulded dog. I think people look way too much under the covers and attempt to find flaws just to find flaws. It's an OS for God sake. If the apps don't work that's another issue all together because thats what is used on a continuos basis. Vista is getting better. It's no Leopard or XP Pro, but it is pretty slick and does work well when matched with the right hardware.
Don't get me wrong, it still pisses me off that an OS takes a minimun of 2 GB of RAM and 9 GB's of disk space. Anyone remember 640K plus 383K of extended memory? "Oh those were the days!"
Just my two cents!
You want Vista to work like XP? Stop trying to tweak it! It's that simple. If your bored, go play a video game or Dungeons and Dragons. Vista was designed to attemp to be self healing. If you start screwing around with system registry entries to eeek out that last bit of performance (which isn't going to matter anyway), you take the chance of messing up the performance editors built into Vista. Try leaving a clean copy of an installation on a system, let the updates come in, work on your computer, and finally get something accomplished.
They need to fix self breaking first.
And don't tweak it and don't touch it? Are you kidding? Thats what you lot are always ranting About Apple for! Make up your mind.
Seriously, I LOVE Vista! If it had not been released I'd still be using Microsoft products.
Computers are FUN again. Linux/OSX Two great things that go great together.
We nuke it off every machine that comes through the door. We then install either XP, 2000 or Linux.
Vista ... no way, not ever.
"The latest updated release candidate – Windows Vista SP1 RC Refresh 2 – has been pumped out to an elite cadre of just 15,000 beta testers."
That's the whole Vista install base covered then?
> you obviously know more than MS about OSes.
But this is true of anyone, surely, judging by the dross MS sell to the general public. Is it an entertainment centre, a music player, a photograph catalogue, a web browser? Who knows - but it behaves less like an OS with every release.
This is what Vista should have from day one. The whole thing just feels better. I love the comments on this site. Never a good comment regarding MS.
Well My vista seems to work great now, Mind you its been a bumpy ride, but finially I have a stable PC with solid Performance! M$ finally sorted their stuff out :D
As a manufacturer of Dogs Eggs (TM) I take issue with the post by anonymous coward when he compares vista (a pile of crap) with our product. We manufacture our Dogs Eggs to the highest quality standard in line with EU regulations and each release of Dogs Eggs is bigger, better and faster than the one before.
On Behalf of 'Research into Dog Cloning'
PS FYI we use linux on all our research computers.
As the sole administrator of a network of 120+ PCs with a base of 1200+ heavy users, I can say that switching to Vista has saved me more time than any other technology choice in the past 10 years. It seems most of the few (very loud) people with issues are those who are incapable of actually learning new technology. Sure the learning curve when switching from XP was steep... but the sheer amount of reliability and managability in a properly configured domain of Vista workstations around a 2k3 server farm is unmatched anywhere. A network of 200 Macs in a nearby school district requires 4 full time techs just to keep things working; running my business network isn't even my full-time job, and I haven't had a single down day since upgrading to Vista a full year ago.
I have been programming, administering databases, and running networks for most of my life on everything from Apple IIe's to SPARCs to 64bit liquid cooled quad cores, from DOS to Mac OSX to Unix to XP and Vista. Vista has more potential to allow me to communicate with non-techies than any other technology I have worked with. And the whole point of modern operating system and computer design is to be approachable by the general consumer, not necessarily for the extreme minority of us who are tech experts.
The all-too-common pundit who likes to scream and shout on boards like this does not represent the average user or the majority of people. Just because you all like to agree with each other here does not mean you are any sort of majority in the real world...
...because in the real world 9 out of 10 computers run an MS operating system, most people see the internet through an IE window, and 12 million more people started using Vista in the past month alone. In fact, it only took a few months after release to grow a larger installed base of Vista users than the entire established base of apple users (and it probably outgrew the installed Linux base in a few hours lol).
So go on, keep thumping your chest about how you are right and microsoft is dead... but maybe it would be better if you could find some way to integrate the reality of the world with your endless complaining. Maybe try learning something new?
I few weeks ago I decided to build a computer for the first time. I read a webpage for 5 minutes, ordered the bits, put it together, installed vista and it worked first time - and its worked ever since.
The only annoying thing about vista is the OTT security, but once its switched off it works brilliantly. It seems pretty much like xp - except it doesnt crash.
Last time I bought a computer was just after xp came out, and I seem to remember xp getting slagged off in exactly the same way that vista is now. All you vista haters have to accept that eventually almost everyone will have vista, and almost everyone will be pretty much happy with it.
Im no MS fanboi, but credit where its due and all that!
Maybe in your opinion vista has saved your more time, but for others they prefer to not be tied into Microsoft products or really don't like paying the retail cost of Microsoft products.
You mention you have worked on DOS MAC OSX, Unix, XP and Vista, however you don't mention linux. A modern version of linux (my choice is opensuse 10.3 however I also use xandros and busybox) and in my opinion after having used opensuse 10.3 I can never see myself going back to Microsoft in the foreseeable future. The reason being, it does everything I need. The KDE desktop is very powerful, Compiz Fusion, the 3D desktop is Amazing and very stable. It provides a stunning music player "Amarok" when used with the xine engine. Firefox & Opera for web browsing, It has an office suite, word processor, spreadsheet, database, Impress presentation, it runs skype, it runs Amsn so I can connect to up many chat networks. Xine and mplayer's capabilities exceed that of windows media player, but that's the tip of the iceberg. Opensuse and I would imagine all the other major linux distributions come with in excess of 1000 applications. Once you start making a little effort and reading about linux capabilities you will feel like you have just walked into Aladdin's cave. Another reason for using linux is that I don't feel Microsoft give me value for money, in fact I feel totally ripped off, especially when Microsoft report yet another profitable quarter. I don't believe they deserve it.
It's true that 9 out of 10 computers run MS windows but that's because the majority of hardware resellers are payed to promote MS windows by Microsoft and the majority of users don't know they have options that are often more functional and almost always at zero cost in terms of hard cash. The problem for widespread adoption of linux in the public sector is that Microsoft discount windows & office to such an extend that, for instance if you are an NHS employee you can get a legal copy of office for about £17 ( whilst employed by the NHS ), that you can use at home. Great for NHS employee's, no good for anybody else.
Dell selling linux on their systems is a total joke. I've never seen a company work so hard to not upset Microsoft. You just know Dell have either been slapped by Microsoft or Microsoft have made them an offer they just cannot refuse, so there promotion of linux is virtually non existent.
Somehow I don't believe you have made much effort to understand linux or the many free and open source applications that are available, it's worth the effort !
A few of the computer's I have programmed with ...
Data General, DEC (RT11), Perkin Elmer Mini computers, MSDOS, WINDOWS 3.11, 95, 98, XP, linux all either in assembly language, C or C++. Linux (opensuse-KDE) is by far the most stable, feature complete OS I have ever used and no I have not used Vista, other people I know have bought it on new systems then reinstalled XP. So I think I'll stick with linux. Thanks.
Computers in the house 11, 8 running linux, 1 running XP, 1 running win2K, 1 running solaris.
Computers at work ~150, 102 running solaris (unix), 10 vxworks, 30 DOS !, 4 XP, 4 linux.
Linux FanBoy and proud of it :)
Its a real shame. If vista had not killed 3 hdd of mine, continued to slow down after every update, did not report information from my pc and actions and was compatible with all the other apps and hardware (what works with any other OS) or crashed or continued to pester me every time I wanted to do anything including opening task manager and cost a massive price for the OS and have all the computers upgraded in the enite company, it might be a good system.
I am sure sales (Hardware Venders no choice) are great and some of the companys who did rollout to 1200 or more or less, might still have to keep cheering on.. I mean it's not like you can tell the board of directors, Hey what can I say the $$$ we spent well you know! lets spend $$$ to change back! What you say we all friends here right. Look I even did a MCSE to learn this, It cost me money and time and thats why we went this route. The books all say it wonderfull.
What you mean I am F*red?
I bet there's a BL@G B@T watch the next comments. Two boos and one yay
That Vista is a good thing.
Just save your breath, it's like arguing with someone who's just screaming at you and won't let you get a word in edgewise, there's nothing to prove or disprove because it's pointless. Linux Facists are like Mac Facists. Close-minded because they know there's not much to hold up their positions.
I've been using Vista since '06 and have of course seen it grow up, become more and more stable, and at first the interface threw me for a loop - but then again so did XP, and 2000, and 98, and 95, and 3.11, and 3.1, and 3.0, and 2.0, etc. etc. etc....
My biggest problems with my Vista customers have been due to antivirus programs "written for Vista" that simply do not work well at all within Vista. Only two that I've used have consistently worked quickly and had pretty good cleaning results. Nod32 was the best, and BitDefender Internet Security 2008 was a close runner up.
For what it's worth, I might as well be arguing with a brick wall but what the hell I threw my hat in!!!!
My worry is that they will sabotage XP in SP3 to prompt users into migrating to Vista.
Get a life away from your PC. I presume any other mass adopted things that people use in their lives you have re-invented your own as well. Built your own house, car, TV etc etc because you like to be different from everyone else and not be a sheep. We all have options in life but you Linux people always suck when anythings mentioned about M$. So what if you've used lots of different PC's, I've driven lots of different cars but doesn't make me want to build my own because I don't like th latest Ford or whatever.
Just go and live in your cave wiht the rest of the Linux donkeys.
What I don't like with Vista is that it uses twice as much RAM as XP with generally the same numbers of programs running (this is checked just after it boots into Windows). After having my high end PC running for a couple of days continiously, it won't release the RAM that was used from gaming (and I'll get some slowdown even with 4Gb PC2-8500 RAM) unless you restart the PC - something XP doesn't have problems with. If I have Vista running for less than 12 hours, its fine.
I also hate the new way Defragmenter works or doesn't quite work by taking ages just to tell me my 2x 150Gb 10,000rpm Raptors don't need degraged & when it does eventually, it takes ages compated to XPs degrag tool - so now I've been using a seperate application.
On the plus side *thinks for 5mins* well I haven't had to reinstall the OS since I bought it 9 months ago! MS must do better next time or there won't be a next time if they keep mucking us about, Linux does sound good from what I've heard here but I doubt it would run most popular games straight away without some addons or tweaks - kudos if it does for some people.
"Really.... Grow up. I didnt see TeeCee evangelising linux or apple. Merely pointing out that Vista is an unuseable piece of cr@p."
The point I'm making is "No, It Isn't". Have any of you actually used Vista since Beta? From most of the false comments I see here I doubt it very much. I am therefore forced to believe that you all make statements that are at best misinformed (or more likely completely uninformed) and at worst complete and utter crap so when you start talking about things that you actually know something about I've already switched off.
"So vista doesn't work for you. Use another OS then."
Maybe you should read AND understand what I write before responding with a flame. Reading and understanding are two very separate skills but it should be no trouble for the majority of people. For the record, I do use Vista, I have done for almost a year and I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever with it. - That was my point! I'm still trying to work out what yours was.
The thing that really annoys me about The Register is the amount of technical arrogance from people who really should know better.
And @Angry Conservative
Yep, I totally agree and should know better not to feed the trolls.