Feeds

back to article Home Sec in anti-terror plan to control entire web

UK Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has decided to mount a push against cyber terror, in which the internet itself will somehow be modified to prevent people using it for terrorist purposes. Today, Ms Smith addressed an international conference on radicalisation and political violence. Much of the speech was about engagement with the …

COMMENTS

This topic is closed for new posts.

Page:

Black Helicopters

"Freedom?"

Just waiting for the Home Office to be renamed "The Department for Homeland Security (UK)"

0
0

No wonder people become terrorists

If this is all the government is capable of doing any more is futily making statements that are either irrelevant, impossible or full of hot air it's small wonder that people work to bring down the government!

0
0

oh dear, they still don't get this intertubes thing do they

It really doesn't matter how many people tell them, traffic monitoring and DPI on this scale is impossible to achieve effectively they'll still keep rattling them sabres at us.

WRT: The dirty bomb, I only see one organisation spreading fear and terror with dirty bombs, and that would be the scare mongering .gov

So how to make a bomb in 3 easy steps:

1, Trundle down to your local library

2, Find the chemistry section

3, Read some old books which generally have some particularly detailed instructions for making things like composition B and RDX among other things. After all, the entire anarchists cookbook was compiled from a variety of library books and low level experimentation...

I expect after making this outrageous claim that LIBRARIES may have TERRORIST material in them we'll start burning books, also I remember my old chemistry teacher had a recipe or two for entertaining students. Those were the days :)

0
0
Anonymous Coward

How about banning..

The Government from the internet, and while they're at it, from tv, radio and the press and then they can play their silly little games in the secrecy they crave.

Politicians are a waste of space, they know it, we know it but still the game goes on. Beware the bogey man (current flavour of the month) he's out to get you. We know best blah blah bloody blah.

The whole lot of them make me sick (whatever their political persuasion)

For the record, I'm one of the dying breed (a Socialist)!!

0
0
Anonymous Coward

What backbone

"In the UK, much of the net backbone is actually controlled by just one company, British Telecom", I think you'll find that this statement is essentially bollocks. BT run a large distribution/access network for sure and no doubt quite a few folk use them for transit but backbone they aint.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Govt shows lack of technical understanding again.

...and anything they do try will end up inconveniencing the vast majority, while the terrorist remains unaffected.

0
0
Dead Vulture

newsflash: govt completely rescinds free speech due to 'terrorists'

I really wouldn't be surprised to see a great firewall of (the) UK.

From there it's not a great leap to think that tools like Tor might be banned.

We're turning into the very countries we call repressive to protect us from these monsterous 'terrorists', heil fuhrer Brown.

Bleh. What's the point in commenting on stuff like this any more, it's a slippery slope and we're already half way down it and yet no-one will do a thing about it.

I think we should teach politics and law (stripped down obviously) as a compulsory subject from primary school onwards, then maybe people would open their eyes and see their rights being stripped from them instead of blindly supporting yet more legislation to 'get the bad guys' because they do not understand the implications of some of these fruitcake laws.

I expect the SAS will be battering through my door any second.

Hat. Coat.

0
0
Silver badge
Flame

Which violent extremists?

"we should also take action against those who groom vulnerable people for the purposes of violent extremism"

Great - they're going to ban recruiting sites for the US Armed Forces and the CIA?

0
0

We need more sites not less

The government should be putting up their own fake terrorist sites with bomb making instructions. We'll end up with a bunch of hook-handed fuckwits roaming around as most of these muppets couldn't pass GCSE chemistry, never mind make a bomb.

Every time I hear another one of these totalitarian idiots come out with another brainless anti-terror plan it makes *me* want to blow something up out of spite.

The worrying thing is, I actually have the knowledge from university to do it.

0
0
Silver badge

I feel safer now than ever

I think you're all being really unfair. These laws must be working both in the UK and the USA. There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the USA since 9/11, compare that with the thousands that occurred before. Similar in the UK, since the Tube attacks, nothing major. Also the before and after incidents of the Madrid train bombs. I just don't know how we managed to survive through it all before.

0
0
Thumb Down

They really are a bunch of R'tards.

A terrorist wants to make you change and lose out in someway, to dirsupt normal life.

This government has been in power and now :-

We lose the right to free speech (shout nonsense at the labour party conference, get chucked out.)

Wear what we want, when we want (you wear a get rid of blair t shirt at the labout party conference and join the other 500+ arrested people)

Lose the right to free travel (have you been to alton towers at manchester air port yet, want to carry a 250 ml coke bottle onto the plane?)

Lost the right to ownership. (Software isn't yours as downloading funds organised crime you know, according to triesman)

We can't criticise faith, muslims, asians because of fear.

Police are too busy collecting DNA and protecting "possible targets" so the streets are left to volunteers and no one dares go outside.

Money is diverted to be spent on MP's pay checks or ID cards, because they work so hard instead of useful things. Like the army, or schools.

So have terrorists already won???

0
0

Not another one...

Yet another story about a political figure who doesn't understand the practicalities of what they say.

"Where there is illegal material on the net, I want it removed" - what a great statement - that's just a joke right? We can't event control dodgy toys on market stalls - how they heck are we supposed to prevent any illegal material coming into the country on the net?

Geez...

0
0
Paris Hilton

Speak no evil

"BT and the ISPs could block overseas websites"

Perhaps that is the solution - block domestic access to overseas websites. And then pass a law forbidding individuals from running or owning websites. Make it illegal to use the internet from home. People will have to go to a special government-approved internet cafe in order to surf the internet, albeit that it will be a subset of a filtered minority of the internet.

I notice that Gordon Brown is jetting off to China. Perhaps he is going to pick up some tips.

0
0
Flame

Of course they can do it!

With a little help from the God-Blessed U S of A for Step 4.

Here's how it will work.

1. Receive report of dodgy site with Bomb Instructions / Jihadist Literature / Slight Criticism of "Tony" Brown and his cronies.

2. Check facts (optional)

3. If site is hosted in Britain, send Men In Suits round to detain author.

4. If site is abroad, invade that country. They're obviously enemies of our precious freedom if they allow material like this to be hosted, and need British / American Democracy (God Bless it!!!!) bringing to them so they can toe the line the way all True Patriots do.

5. ???

6. Profit!!

0
0
Black Helicopters

H()t Ch1x Vi@grrra Rol3x Terrrist

So, Blighty is going to have to have a Chinese army of Arabic, Russian and err…Chinese specialists constantly playing “wack-a-mole” with websites, IRC etc. I reckon English language websites would be relatively easy to automatically block, but those non-Roman character sets are nightmare to filter – ask anyone who works with Websense or similar.

If it’s not EU-wide, then what’s to stop Mr Terrrist secure tunneling thro to his mates less regulated connections in Belgium or the Netherlands (fast connections, and lots of “sympathisers” to choose from). If it’s EU wide, then I’ll look forward to Europe’s brightest finally *agreeing* what constitutes “terrorism”, since this has been on the table many times – but never agreed. I’m sure some Ulster Unionists would still argue that Sinn Fein was a terrorist organisation. The Greeks would have a field day banning Turkish\N.Cypriot news websites. The French might have a go at banning some Corsican news/blog sites, similar in Spain\Catalunia. Jeez – there are probably just cause for banning the Guardian since it’s advocated the Treasonous overthrow of the Monarchy with a Republic… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848.

Meanwhile, Mr Terrist will continue to use photocopiers,DVD burners and bookstores etc to spread their wares. The more tech savvy might even keep playing with their steganographic communications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography#Rumored_usage_in_terrorism

0
0
Boffin

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

[correction]"technically ignorant voters", whilst technically correct, might better be written as "technologically ignorant voters" which has the virtue also of being technically accurate[/correction].

Otherwise - this is by far the scariest thing I've read today.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

A little experiment

So Blairs attack on free speech continues.... well lets try something.

1. The Fringles murdered 3 of our Wurzles in cold blood while we were negotiating a peace treaty.

Did you feel incited to violence? I used all the right verbs, 'murdered' and introduced an injustice 'while we were negotiating a peace treaty'. Do you just not want to go out and blow up those Fringles??? No? Why not? Aren't words enough? Maybe it's because you're not a Wurzle, you just can't empathize with them.

2. The Fringles murdered 3 of our British Schoolkids who were on a holiday to Fringle land and wanted to visit the famous Chocolate factory there.

Did that work? Surely you can empathize with those British schoolkids all excited at visiting that chocolate factory only to be mown down by those murderous Fringles? No? Maybe it's Fringles, you just can't image them as an enemy can you?

3. Three illegal immigrants from Tunisia, brutally stabbed, killed and maimed two of our brightest british school children while they were on a trip to the alps. "All they wanted to do was see white snow, but now the snow is red, cried their mother".

Didn't that just want to make you go out and blow up Tunisia? No? Perhaps because it's not a real story? How about this.

4. [censored*]

What about that this 4th example. Do you feel angry? Why? What is it about that last sentence that makes you angry that the other 3 didn't? Is it because it's true?

You see it's not the words that make people angry it's the underlying injustice they represent. The best you can try to do is censor this news in the hope of stopping people from learning about the injustice, but in censoring you simply amplify the injustice. The correct solution as ever is to fix the injustice, rather than trying Blairist spin and censorship. The man was a little sh*t, he left under a cloud, we don't follow his ideas anymore.

* I self censored this comment because of this latest attack on free speech. I can make the generic point without the reporting the specific incident.

0
0
Pirate

"largest global technology and internet companies"

So - BT, TalkTalk, Tiscali and their peers are going to save the country? I suppose at least some of them can suppress the information - or make it so slow to get at that any uncommitted terrorist would give up and resort to an A-level Chemistry book from the 1970s or older.

0
0
Bronze badge
Pirate

BT,DT,GTTS

Ah, it's the old BBS witch hunt all over again.

There are 853 days left (max) until we can get rid of these cretins for a few years. Please everyone, vote for a real nutter next time.

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Makes me laugh

The government ARE the terrorists !

Who is it that threatens us every day of our lives - the government.

From speed cameras to TV licences, from Customs and Excise to the Inland Revenue, Interest rates, mortgages, credit ratings, job security, alcohol, drugs, freedom of assembly, threat of imminent attack etc etc ad infinitum.

Whatever we want to do, the govt. has a way to threaten us to conform to their wishes. We don't comply at the risk of becoming a criminal. Notice how more and more laws are being passed with greater and greater granularity and focus. They can't control us unless we have something to lose, and that something is our freedom. Ironically, they are taking away our freedom to do so many things that we are becoming a nation with nothing to lose !

So expect more home grown terrorists in future, or to use the correct term - freedom fighters !

Before too long the Nanny will become the Big Brother ....

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Terrorist threat from snail mail

How can we be sure the terrorists won't use the Royal Mail?

If I am elected I will immediately build an enormous warehouse to which all mail will be sent, to be held until a suitable government IT project is developed.

I estimate the warehouse will be the size of seventy thousand thousand Millenium Domes (or eight million London buses) and the first letters will reappear around 2019 - a small price to pay for the knowledge we are the first nation to have tamed the terror mail threat.

0
0

"not a government no-go"

Yup, it's a "fuck off" area.

Go on, Gov. Fuck off. If you don't understand what happens on the internet and what you can do about it, don't piss in.

0
0
Thumb Down

A firewall?

Sure, that will work, given HMG's stellar record with computer projects.

The nicely planted item on C4 News last night just seemed to show a couple of YouTube hosted videos by a rap outfit as much influenced by Radical Dance Faction as the mujahadeen. When will governments learn that you can't stop people communicating if they want to, and more to the point, if you do, aren't you making yourself the same as those people that you're trying to stop? While they're at it, why not investigate the activities of the far right in this country, who are far more of a threat to any 'Islamic terrorists' as it's getting increasingly likely that there will be a couple of their odious representatives on the back benches come the next election.

We've had a fair few folk devils paraded this week. Paedophiles are bad, but never mind that we've lost a couple, we'll clamp down on their activities. The trafficking of eastern European women into prostitution is bad, so we'll criminalise the purchase of sex, which will definitely stop an illegal practise that the police can't seem to do anything about, primarily because no-one knows how many immigrants there are in this country, eastern European or not, illegal or legal, kidnapped or here of their own accord. And now the Interwebs are being used to distribute things that we don't agree with and indeed Threaten The British Way of Life, so Something Must Be Done. To quote a certain Doctor, don't you think they look tired?

0
0
Gold badge
Unhappy

Now we know.

Jaqui Smith is the vat-grown bastard love-child of King Cnut and The Little Dutch Boy.

What f***wit appointed *her* Home Secretary? Wasn't Miss Piggy available?

0
0

after reading comments I'd like to garner peoples opinion on this...

I am part of a facebook group we call "Evil geniuses for a better tomorrow", we set this up as a larf, we added pics of sharks with frickin laser beams, atom bomb plans and various other odds and sods. Now here's the strange thing, we have an invisible member! Don't believe me, check the group out, there's always <visible members>+1 in the number of members list.

Who is this invisible member, I didn't even know you could do that with facebook, is this monitoring?

0
0
Ian

Backbone

"In the UK, much of the net backbone is actually controlled by just one company, British Telecom. "

Erm, no. I've designed, implemented and managed ISP networks for 11 years. I've spent a lot of time talking to other people who do the same (including folks who've run BT's IP networks). I have never known any significant ISP buy backbone capacity (i.e. transit) from BT, not one. The principal backbone providers for the UK are probably Level 3, Global Crossing, NTT, Telia, PCCW, SAVVIS and XO - but there's a lot of ebb and flow in who's who. BT buy their transit from Sprint, SAVVIS, Level 3, AT&T, and GlobalCrossing.

0
0
Black Helicopters

Face the telescreen

Let us sing our national anthem.... "Oceania 'tis for thee.."

0
0
ian
Bronze badge
Joke

@Eitsop

""Where there is illegal material on the net, I want it removed" - what a great statement - that's just a joke right? We can't event control dodgy toys on market stalls - how they heck are we supposed to prevent any illegal material coming into the country on the net?"

<legal>

Quite simple actually. Just require that illegal material have a /illegal tag, and prosecute when the tag is missing.

</legal>

0
0
Paris Hilton

It's only Hansard online

The government's contorl of on-line content is complete with MP's profanities being removed from the on-line version of Hansard.

"Mr John Baron (Billericay) (Con): “ ... life-threatening shortages of kit” from which he claims troops fighting abroad suffer, including “electronic equipment to detect roadside bombs” -

Minister for the Armed Forces (Bob Ainsworth): Absolute bollocks.

Mr Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Is that a parliamentary expression?

Mr John Baron (Billericay) (Con): I shall move on... "

On-line reads:

"Mr John Baron (Billericay) (Con): “ ... life-threatening shortages of kit” from which he claims troops fighting abroad suffer, including “electronic equipment to detect roadside bombs” -

Mr John Baron (Billericay) (Con): I shall move on... "

0
0
Coat

Vote BNP!

If we're going to have a bunch of xenophobic authoritarian morons in charge we might as well have the ones with the honesty to admit it.

Right?

Yes, the one with the swastika armband please...

0
0
Col
Stop

It's inevitable

so my suggestion for the name for the forthcoming national firewall is "the White e-Cliffs", which has a nicely national-jingoistic ring to it. Make the bad man stop, mummy!

0
0
Anonymous Coward

Before the internet, stuff still went bang...

I fondly recall Fuels, Explosives and Dyestuffs a rather dry, but detailed, industrial chemicals book from the school library.

I bet it's still there.

0
0
Silver badge

Not a Cnut

@TeeCee - Knut and the water business has been misreported and used in a negative way. He actually was demonstrating that he had no power over the waves, not that he could command them. "What was that? 'the Greek shall inherit the earth?' "

Top marks for BT basically telling Auntie Jaqui to piss off. If it hadn't been flogged off then The Home Office would still have total control. Horse gone, stable demolished, door for sale on e-bay.

0
0
Thumb Up

@Karl Lattimer

> frickin laser beams

A sentence guaranteed to make me laugh out loud!

0
0

@Mike Crawshaw

But the H'Amerikans say Europe is the terrorists' base !! So will they be invading soon ??

I'm getting my coat and tin-foil hat and moving to the Antartic. At least, they only kill whales there !!

0
0
Flame

All your internets are belong to GOV

Somebody set us up the (dirty) bomb!

0
0

China

Heard about this on the BBC World Service earlier.

It was followed by a report on China online - 200,000 new users everyday..... mumble.. soon overtake USA as country with most uses..... despite employing many people to filter sites (including BBC World)...rabbit .... inappropriate material still gets through.

Perhaps UK Governent has hit on this as a way to reduce unemployment?

Or even 'community service' punishments for those who used the internet to "groom vulner,,,"

Oh shit.

0
0
Silver badge

So the Chinese have "The Great Firewall of China"

And Enland will have "Hadrian's Firewall"?

0
0
Stop

Nuts

Government can not stop simple data breaches, so thinks that it can control the internet.

Why do I have picture of donkey in my head?

0
0
Flame

Dear Ms. Home Secretary

You bleedingly stupid git. Oh, sorry, sorry, I meant to say...

You have precisely zero chance of preventing people from accessing data over the Internet as long as the Internet exists. Since the UK does not have the armed capability of destroyed every single Internet server on the planet, you are screwed.

Satellite Internet access will continue to exist even if you manage to isolate the UK from the rest of the world's wired communications.

Why don't you just check in o the nearest Home for the Hopelessly Bewildered and save the taxpayers a few pounds, there's a good lass.

Incidentally, the same argument applies to the R.I. Ass. of America, and the BPI.

0
0
Unhappy

Call me a cynic, but ....

Remember this is the government that transfers data by CD in the pannier of a courier motorbike - then loses the bloody stuff!!!

0
0
Anonymous Coward

brown? a good name as in the early hitler's early police?

strange how history repeats.

maybe it is time that we took these uneducated, ill informed morons and put them in public stockades for all their failures!

if people want to commit crimes they will, what part of this don't this bunch of jokers understand? you can make crimes illegal but you cannot stop a determined indivivdual.

i wish i could leave this country before it finally goes to the dogs but i need my election budget to survive:)

0
0
Black Helicopters

enemies of the state: don't rely on Tor.

"...it isn't hard to use relays such as Tor to effectively browse from a point overseas....

No machinery under the UK government's control needs to see anything other than a stream of encrypted traffic in order for a user located in Britain to merrily enter hardcore terrorist chatrooms, download bomb-making instructions, coordinate operations and all the rest."

Not necessarily, according to Steve Topletz (of Torpark/Xerobank) on the Wilders Security forum. ( http://tinyurl.com/yo2dhq )

Originally Posted by caspian:

"I don't understand how they could tell who someone is or where they live by analyzing traffic coming from Tor. If tor does not even know your IP address at the exit point, how could analyzing traffic do so?"

Steve's answer:

"Because the ISP can see *who* your computer is talking to, and intelligence agencies have the internet tapped. They can see you visit website x, talking through tor node 3, talking through tor node 2, talking through tor node 1, talking to your computer. They can see who is talking to whom, and depending on your computer sending requests that get relaying through the network, they can follow the string right back to you because they are capable of observing the whole internet."

Originally Posted by caspian:

"I thought the XeroBank browser and the Vidalia bundle with privoxy prevented the ISP from knowing what websites you visit. I know that they can see that you connect to a Tor server, but I thought that it was impossible to see where it leaves Tor and where it goes from there."

Steve:

"It prevents your ISP from knowing what website YOU visit, but they know you are talking to Tor node 1. Tor node 1's ISP knows he is talking to Tor node 2 and so on. If all ISPs collude, or simply an intelligence agency can monitor all the ISPs, they can perform traffic analysis."

Originally Posted by caspian:

"Wow. I did not know that this was possible. But is this some kind of far fetched scenario that would be used under extreme circumstances......like for terrorists or something? It seems awfully involved and complicated a technique to employ just for some minor legal violoation, like downling music. I mean there are all kinds of internet scams that no one seems to be able to track or resolve. Identity theft seems to be rampant and I have NEVER heard of any of these thieves being tracked this way. Could traffic analysis be done with XeroBank? And if so, who would be capable of this and for what reasons would they go to such trouble?"

Steve:

"Powerful governments (US/UK/China) have this ability, as do super telecoms such as UUNet, QWEST and AT&T. This can be done with pretty much any low-latency anonymity network. This is why I say there is a tipping point, those who are less than a superpower don't have the capability, those who are don't need to bust your encryption to bust your identity and traffic."

0
0

Scroogling for dirty bombs

Would that mean a block on "depleted uranium" as well? Nah, they're clearly not that smart.

0
0

Doesn't this...

...fall into the category of "being seen to be doing something, anything, when nothing realistic can be done".

In other words, hot air. (As others have pointed out).

0
0
Pirate

New Labour, New Crackpots

Quite why they think the internet is to blame when it is THEIR OWN ACTIONS that has caused offence to muslims.

The making of bombs has been the main point of interest in anyone studying chemistry at GCSE level. Oh, and the making of smells too.

As an example, guns are used to commit crimes, so, lets ban all guns and then we wont have gun crime. It is sad for those who like shooting as a sport, but it is a small price for them to pay so we can walk the streets safely. Did gun crime cease to exist? No. Why not? Because the criminals got their guns illegally and they just don't give a toss for the law. Lock them up! Well, if only we could catch one, we might.

A point here, most criminals are happily shooting each other in turf wars. It is rare for a member of the public to be shot.

A bit more freedom taken away, with an ever so good excuse, to stop terrorism. It would be easier to stop terrorism if you stopped bombing their countries. We had the IRA doing serious damage for 35 years, well several hundred really. Now, we have to go around like some frightened rabbit because of some Saudi looney living in a cave in Afghanifuckinstan.

Give it a rest.

I am more scared of Harriet Harman.

0
0

Be careful what you wish for

"By Chris W

Posted Thursday 17th January 2008 15:33 GMT

I think you're all being really unfair. These laws must be working both in the UK and the USA. There hasn't been a terrorist attack in the USA since 9/11, compare that with the thousands that occurred before. Similar in the UK, since the Tube attacks, nothing major. Also the before and after incidents of the Madrid train bombs. I just don't know how we managed to survive through it all before."

So are you say that for protection and so called security, you are willing to give up your personal freedom and civil liberties? These are uncertain times, when all we hear from our so called leaders that they know what is best, by trading away your rights to be a Free thinking Human for a chance that someone can say that you were talking to the wrong person so you must be watched? The Patriot Act here in the US gives the Government the right to called you a terrorist, usurp your civil rights, search your home, tap your phone, and seize your property in the name of "Home Land Security" without even due process of the law. Be very careful of these people who keep saying that this is that when all the while they are seizing control of every aspect of your life. Repeat a lie often enough, people was believe it to be true

0
0

lies

Please stop listening to what these politicians say. You know they lie.

0
0
Black Helicopters

@Karl Lattimer: No conspiracy, and Tor

" Now here's the strange thing, we have an invisible member! Don't believe me, check the group out, there's always <visible members>+1 in the number of members list.

Who is this invisible member, I didn't even know you could do that with facebook, is this monitoring?"

It would be pretty crap monitoring if it gave the game away so blatantly, wouldn't it!

No, it's just someone who's got his privacy settings turned up, or has blocked you.

Re: Tor

"If all ISPs collude, or simply an intelligence agency can monitor all the ISPs"

That's still one hell of a big "if". I reckon if a tor tunnel goes through a few different countries, the chances of the necessary collaboration being agreed between them has to be tiny. If you're really concerned, make sure your tunnel goes in and out of China... I don't think the CIA will have much access to anything going on the other side of the great firewall.

0
0
Silver badge

Bang

In 1971 I was given plans for an Plutonium bomb that fits in a Milkchurn.

You can't get milkchurns so easily now but I think Plutonium might be slightly easier than it was. You'll die of course of if one grain gets in you while machining the three parts.

I'm also reminded of Ministry of Peace: Nightwatch in Babylon 5 and George Orwell's 1984 (which was about real life post war, not the future).

We seem to have imported the worst aspects of 1933 Germany, Russia and Spain.

0
0

Page:

This topic is closed for new posts.