It's good to see where "our" governments loyalties are.

cares much much more about money than the health of tghe nation. IF, and I say IF, the Government can so very quickly threaten legislation against ISP's for allowing file sharing WHY has the Government in 10-15 years not legislated to bar ISP's from carrying newsgroup named such as "alt.child-porn" etc etc etc etc ??. The reason is that they really care only about money and big business, just like a NEW Labour Government does !! Gordon Brown should find out what FOAD means and go and do it along with his whole Government.

...exactly how this is going to work. All one need do if they block p2p protocols is spend 10 euros a month on a seedbox somewhere else, use that to do the transfers and pull what you want off over a VPN. Or, wait a few weeks for some enterprising soul to come up with a new app that makes a mockery of all their efforts.

It's all about the perception of a victimless crime...

Paedophillia obviously has a victim; comparing the two is ridiculous at best; sickening at worst.

Unfortunately we're unable to see the effect of file sharing, the music industry seems to be doing just as well, there aren't any musicians (with the exception of Britney, and we must use "musician" incredibly loosely here, speaking of loose...) who appear to be in any trouble.

Until the public perception of big fat music companies charging huge amounts of cash for records changes, this will always be viewd as a victimless crime.

I think the solution is for the industries business model to change rather than try and control something they can't.

I've lost track of where i was going with this and cant be bothered to write any more..fill in the blanks...

as an aside - I couldn't give a toss, apparently you can buy a server in China for £50 a month.

So I'll buy a Chinese server, set up a vpn and download everything to that via xdcc and bittorrent then just vpn it down to me.

Or I'll use perfect dark

Government can go ---- itself.

Not that I download anything but fansubbed anime anyway.

what an arse face!

I still can't see how this will work in practice. An IP packet is just an IP packet so how will the ISP's distinguish an infringing packet from any other?

Packet inspection is a none starter. Quite apart from packets containing no application related information is the fact that billions/trillions of packets flow

round our networks every day and inspecting all that data (assuming it's not encrypted) and looking it up against some sort of database is just not practical.

You could perhaps look for patterns of activity but this wouldn't tell you that it was infringing activity.

So what are they left with? Traffic volume? This would be a major problem for ISP's trying to sell bigger faster net access packages. Many types of site would soon

be out of business (in the UK at least). Media vendors would go the same way - how do I distinguish a legal TV download from an illegal? How will they distinguish

my patching up a fresh install of XP from me downloading Hero's?

If the content producers are not careful they will have outlawed the very technologies they may need to exploit to stay in business.

I know what my answer to a "stop or be disconnected" notice would be (downgrade) and my ISP won't like it.

most of my life I couldn't justify the cost of music and I didn't bother. Then I spent time in Germany where it cost a third what it did here and I bought several CDs. Then eventually it became more and more accessible to download music and I started listening.

If they take that away I'll just go back to not listening to music. The only purpose it serves is to drown out whatever everyone else is blaring out at full volume anyway, let's see a reduction in music in this country. It's about time.

I do not remember the general populace getting up in arms in regard to file sharing so why are the governments getting so deeply involved. Just highlights that democratic governments are just as bad when it comes to cronieism. Corprats and Politicos are only out for themselves and know they only need to throw a bone or two to cover ur eyes in wool.

...that when I play Quake Wars I will lose my internet access?

Seriously, when an ISP can't tell the difference between a P2P packet and a non P2P packet how the hell do they think this will work? Typical government, bunch of proper wankers with no grasp on reality, I was under the impression that our MP's were supposed to be 'of the people' - guess I was wrong :(

"ISPs can tell the difference between P2P and non-P2P packets."

But can they tell the difference between legal P2P packets and illegal P2P packets?

But not over ssl...

Deep Packet Inspection will not work. Quite a few bittorrent packages already support encryption. As more ISPs begin to filter traffic, more people will use encryption. DPI cannot tell if encrypted p2p data is legal or not, file-sharing or not. I use p2p to obtain Linux disc images & game updates (via Steam). Even attempting DPI on encrypted bittorrent data will require a crazy amount of expensive hardware. Their only option will be to throttle ALL encrypted data which will lead to mass complaints.

I use Virgin Media and never have problems with bandwidth throttling of my bittorrent data.

Yes, but how can they tell the difference between what are legally shared bits and illegally shared bits?

Presumably they would also have to be able to decipher encrypted packets before they could attempt this??

why don't they shut off access to all the spam-spewing bots out there?

"ISPs can tell the difference between P2P and non-P2P packets."

Yes, but as Les points out, they can't tell the difference between legal and illegal P2P packets. Also, encryption should also prevent them from telling P2P packets from those, say, from when you are accessing your Internet banking or purchasing something online.

If they were investing in deep packet inspection technology, then they may as well also use it to shape the traffic flow (which DPI gear is perfectly capable of), reducing the bandwidth available to other high data resources such as video streaming or those they do not like (the BBC's iPlayer, for example).

Fine, no problem. After the arrest, trial, and conviction of an accused illegal filesharer, the ISP can disconnect him without notice.

Any time prior to conviction, however, the ISP is liable to find themselves facing civil charges of defamation, should they disconnect someone for "illegal filesharing."

Another useless, unworkable law that will punish only the legitimate ISP. Apparently UK politicians are at least as stupid (and venal) as US politicians.

And I (in the USA) will continue to use BitTorrent to share Linux distros - which is purely legal, Mister "Lord" Triesman. I suppose UK residents will be forced to pay the Microsoft tax (probably by having Inland Revenue collect it, and paying Microsoft directly out of the National Treasury).

it is even more steps down the

"Guilty with no right to prove your innocense."

<Rant>

Back in the day people had to prove you did something wrong, now days it's easier to get you done for something you didn't do becouse the accusers don't need to prove anything.

<rant +1>

"This person got these files! My lord"

"I see, well obviously they stole them, robbing you of thousands of pounds by giving them to hundreds of people. You can't prove any of that and neither can I infact nobody even bothered to investigate but hey this is a 21st century democracy - we don't need to prove anything!"

Much like

<rant +5>

"This rag wearing Arab is a terrorist suspect, we will hold him, revoke his freedoms, supress his rights to information and fair trial, becouse this is the west and we can do stuff like that without fear of repercussions! Evidence? No we can't show you any evidence, isn't the fact he speaks foreign and wears a teacozy enough to prove our point!? Of course it is!"

<Rant + 10>

Jeez I love that we're such a free, honest, just society, that the citizen comes first, that men who have sex with bicycles in their own room end up on sex offenders registers. That your dna ends up on databases forever after being found drunk in a bush. That they stand by you when threatend by money grabbing s---heads. The record industry and its cronies arn't capitalists. Capitilists know how to inovate and provide. Their just gangsters leaching off a servial state.

<Rant over load>

F--- labour, f--- the tories, f--- the lib dems, f--- this shitty country. Once I can speak a new language I'm out of here. Theres no place here for citizens, just mindless slaves. Barcoded and tracked, raped left right and centre for the good of gangsters.

<Rant Critical level>

---ing ----s

Welcome to the West. Please Suck this old encumbants c--k, he hasn't invotated or provided anything to society for 20 years but we think he still deserves all the pie.

<Rant concluded>

<.<

Whatever, I hope they all get cancer. Every last one of them.

Its the fact that large lobbying groups can achieve these sort of results where as the peoples opinions don't really seem to hold much water that is the worrying and sickening part.

They have asked to be cop, judge and executioner, proverbally of course :), and they are going to get it. Don't remember people asking for speed camera stealth taxes, costly invasions, 'high score' system for police, sorry targets, or a creeking NHS.

We have to remember we are talking about entertainment here not military/state secrets. And its over priced entertainment at that if u ask me.

In days of yore artist where not in it for vast quanities of money but rather a love of medium within which they choose to express themselves.

Ranting over woohoo I feel releaved.

I can almost say I've never downloaded a holywood movie, almost, sadly I did aquire a copy of 300 just to see what all the fuss was about - man it was rubbish. Anyway that slight indescretion I don't download anything that I'd expect to be of interest to any license holders from the UK. Of course I do violate copyrights downloading fansubs - but as far as I'm concerned - if the Japanese license holders don't want to sell their series at a reasonable price they can go swing.

Seriously only the most sort after and loved series are translated, then only years after the origonal air date.Then they're mostly commercial rubbish (Naruto, one peice, bleach - please kill me.) This year 4 series have been announced for release in the uk WOW one of which is 7 years old LOL. Now compare that to the number of series I was watching last anime autumn season - 17 series. Of which at best 1 will ever get a UK release (in 3 or 4 years) and maybe 5 will get a US release (in maybe 1 or 2 years.)

So I download fansubs. It's the only choice I have, bar learning Japanese and importing the DVDS (and my friends that is unbelievably expensive as anime DVD's in Japan are only for collectors really.) I do actually have about £3000 worth of legit anime dvds. Along with about £1000 worth of figures and £1000 worth of Concert DVDs.

I don't actually agree with copyright infringment if you have a viable alternative (local cd and dvd sales) If it's too expensive don't buy the stuff - go without it's not that hard, western music, films and series are tosh anyway (except firefly that was good.)

Anyway onto my point. I don't think it's at all fair to accuse people of being paranoid, wearing tin foil hats etc.

As citizens of this nation we mostly invest quite a bit (say about 50 -> 70% of your pay) in taxes and additional costs (vat, direct tax, tax built into the price of products etc.) We helped put the government where it is. We're the citizens darn it! So when a whole business sector is acting unfairly and abusing its customer base, crushing emerging businesses, refusing to modernise. When a whole secter is doing that. We'd hope that _our_ government would go "hey hold on a second, I think the public has a point here - I think you may be acting unfairly."

We'd hope that _our_ government might say "You have to provide for this need, I mean you are a business and the customers want this service, so why pretell arn't you providing it?" That's the crux of why we're so tired of it, why we're all so angry and dissilusioned.

Becouse _our_ politicians don't stand up for us, they don't think of us as citizens. They think of us as a problem to be solved. It's sad, and frustrating and there is nothing that we can do.

I believe in copyright, I write a bit and I'd be annoyed if someone else used my material for their own ends (never gonna happen as everything I write sucks) but copyright is there to protect artists. So that artists can benefit the public. But there's something wrong. Very wrong with the way things are now. Very wrong indeed.

Is this the kind of government we deserve, the kind of government we wanted? Tories, Labour or Lib Dem. Becouse let's not forget that the Tories want to give the music industy money to make happy songs.

O well... back to apathy

Anonymous Superhero

dare say the implementation will be outsorced as ussual.

they prob hope to find them CD images HMRC lost at some point and nail someone.

this will be another law that allows investigations beyond all reasonablness for the offence, hardly ever used for what it is stated and probably used to pressure ISPs more than the actual users.

because if people are downloading TV shows and movies that are being withheld from our market surely it means people are fed up of being the last to get it legally.

Also, what about people wanting to get their hands on content that has been broadcast via traditional TV but will never see the DVD press because they won't really sell in enough quantity to be economically viable for release - plenty of docu's, one offs such as comic connections, ancient tv shows that aren't "hip enough" to even get reruns etc or were just too "taboo" or un-PC to even think about releasing to our "sanitised" markets now (swear words beeped out at 10pm, you can't be serious!) means classic and original programming gets sacrificed to the trite gods of "reality" scripted programming (I really can't believe how many people think that everything that happens in the big brother lobotomy lab isn't scripted! and by scripted I don't mean in the traditional sense where everything they say is written for them, but rather a more ad-lib style where events are scripted but the dialogue is made up by the cretins within and then TV editors snip away at the footage to make it seamless).

Release everything for download and give us a subscription fee and let us decide what out of their library we want to watch, the programming control genie is out of its bottle, we wish to plan what we want to watch ourselves now!!

It'll be trivial to get people kicked off ISP's. Send them a few suspiciously named files, do a few things which are legal but I don't really want to detail.. oops, they're off.

Then there's the issue with the loss of common carrier status. The issues of shared connections. The issues of hacked wireless connections. The issues of trojans downloading files. The issues.. heck, you can go on for 20 pages.

And if it goes through I'll be destroying ALL my media, not just the music from the cartels I shredded some years ago. It's too risky, legally, to have it anywhere *near* you - I mean that in a quite literal sense, given I work in an industry where a piracy issue would lose me my job.

I *wish* this was tinfoil hat. It's not anymore.

PS, you REALLY can't tell between a lot of RTS games and certain P2P traffic.