A 17-year-old from Norfolk who "boasted of his criminal exploits on Bebo" has been slapped with a two-year anti-social behaviour order (Asbo), banning him from publishing material online which is "threatening or abusive" and "promotes criminal activity". According to the Telegraph, Norwich Youth Court imposed the order after the …
Do the people who issued the cyber asbo not realise how stupid this sounds?
How long before some pillock in government thinks up the e-asbo system and hands over a huge wodge of cash to Capita for another big database?
And where's the Paris Hilton angle?
"....banning him from publishing material online which is "threatening or abusive" and "promotes criminal activity".
I thought that "threatening or abusive" behaviour and "promoting criminal activity" were actually illegal, which means the populace with the exception of the government, its officials and the police force are already banned from such activities.
So now that he is double banned, I presume he can be both prosecuted for breaking the law by being abusive, threatening and promoting criminal activity. And be busted for breaching an ASBO.
He didn't steal the Chief Inspectors car and smoke a doobie whilst doing donuts in the police car park did he?
Stealing a car - prosecute him, not an asbo.
Posession of canabis - a non-arrestable offence currently on a par with a parking offence, hardly a call for an asbo, really.
I really hate asbos, it is totally wrong to make something illigal for one person (usually not middle class or out of their teens) when, if they are breaking the law, they should be prosecuted.
In this case he *did* commit the crime, but suppose he didn't...
Suppose for a second that he *didn't* really commit the crime, but *did* do the boasting on Bebo. Under that case would the judge be entitled to issue an ASBO? In other words can the ASBO be issued solely for the boasting?
I'm curious how deep a sh*t hole TB dug for you. Can a judge decide to issue an ASBO simply because people are saying stuff online which the police are unhappy with. If the answer is no, then what legal mechanism stops them from getting that ASBO?
In other words did Tony Blair (asshole, micromanager, religious extremist) create a general right of censorship via asbo, backed by a possible prison sentence if you breach the asbo?
stealing a vehicle (not to mention his other crimes)
And all he gets is a bloody ASBO !!!
Whereas if I were caught speeding, I'd get a fine and points on my license!
And the Police and CPS wonder why they are hated! If they spent more time:
a) Catching Criminals
b) Prosecuting Criminals
c) PUNISHING Criminals appropriately
d) Putting more Police on the beat in high-crime-zones instead of putting up stupid signs telling me that I'm parking my car in a high-crime-zone
Then they might be respected and trusted.
As Alf Garnett would say: "This Country's going to the Dogs!".
censorship via asbo
Shhhh. He didn't tell them. He thought they'd think of it for themselves. No jury needed either, AFAIK. Just a tame judge. Is there even a route of appeal?
There is a difference between writing something on the internet and a proper confession or statement taken under oath.
Frankly, I'd bet that half of the stuff was embellished quite a lot. If I wrote on a website that I stole a car, it doesn't make it true (as far as the rozzers know, heh heh) and there would be no grounds for prosecuting me for it.
Not everything you read on the internet is true, y'know!
Re: What if...
"In other words did Tony Blair (asshole, micromanager, religious extremist) create a general right of censorship via asbo, backed by a possible prison sentence if you breach the asbo?"
Yes, pretty much.
The level of evidence required to justify imposing an ASBO is less than that needed for a criminal conviction. So when there is not enough evidence to prove guilt you get an ASBO and if you break the conditions you can recieve a sentence greater than you would have for the original (unproven) accusation.
This get's worse when you look at the arbitrary nature of some of the conditions imposed. There was a guy recently who was not allowed to enter the area where his sick mother lived so, naturally, he ended up breaching this condition and was punished despite the fact that he had complied with all the other conditions and was behaving in the way the ASBO was designed to encourage him to behave.
They're are essentially a way for the government to sidestep the proper judicial process and allow political policing.
Norwich Youth Court??
an sints wen 'as YOOF been spelt like dat?
Warning incoming rant
So should the authors of Trainspotting, Fear and Loathing, and that welsh dealer dude who wrote a book on his activities, Marks or something, get ASBO's as well. And any other work of literature that has dodgy stuff, i think Shakespear might be in trouble actually, sucide, drug taking (posion) and murder.
Also considering that Cannabis was made illegal due to heavy lobbying by the american cotton industry in 1930 after the invention of a machine to harvest hemp on the same scale, makes the whole prohibition seem alot less morally acceptable. Concidently the same thing happened home brew alcohol around 1880 after heavy lobbying from the brewery industry in the UK, which was only reversed in the 1960's. Makes u wonder who really controls policy doesn't it :)
Democracy is an illusion of choice we have all bought into, don't ask me the alternative because u probably wouldn't like it :)
</Rant> My apologies but i had to mention it :) and after this article i will be posting anom, but unfortuately i don't think it would take much for El Reg to give over my details, no offence guys but we are slowly entering a police state in all but name especially when u have politicos who are saying we will give the police what they need, slippery slope my friends slippery slope.
I feel a sudden urge to admit that I stole a car too...
(but I didn't shoot the deputy)
re:Warning incoming rant
I suggest you should know that even if you post "Anonymous", El-Reg hacks will know who you are since you submit your email with your post.
And, yes, I have been emailed by El-Reg hacks requesting further comments despite posting anonymously.
I suggest creating an anonymous email account and submit that as your registration email account - if you are excessively paranoid.
Isn't bebo based in San Francisco, how is it any of the uk's police's business what he writes on there.
Anybody in the UK...
...want to tell me again how the US has less freedom than our friends in blighty, when you can be randomly banned from saying anything or going anywhere without trial, because you insulted a cop online?
Yeah... didn't think so.
"How long before some pillock in government thinks up the e-asbo system and hands over a huge wodge of cash to Capita for another big database?"
Let's hope that they let me support this database... my job is wearing a bit thin...
Anonymous Capita Employee? Not 'arf...
OK Matt Martin -
So I come around to your house and bitch-slap you and then steal your car. There is no evidence that it was me other than a video on bebo of me in the car boasting about how I bitch-slapped you.
Are you saying that the Police shouldn't be able to use that because I was boasting in another country?
As Alf Garnett would say: "This Country's going to the Dogs!"
Wrong, it's gone to the dogs and been shit out the other end, we're just waiting for the flies to land on us now!
@ Matt MArtin
"Isn't bebo based in San Francisco, how is it any of the uk's police's business what he writes on there."
International electrons, don't you know. Surprised they don't get done as illegal immigrants or sued for VAT evasion or something...
Bloody typical - irritating brat gets next to bugger all punishment for his real crimes: string the little bugger up and sterilise his parents to stop them making another one, I say.
(and no apologies for hiding behing the anonymous thingy on this one!)
@ All those people who are worried he might be innocent
If you are stupid enough to brag about nicking a car on the web you deserve all you get, regardless of if you were making it up to impress your mates.
It is just encouraging other yoofs to pinch cars.
...and an ASBO is not sufficient!
@ Anonymous Coward
You are very right btw... this is becoming a police state... its pretty crap isnt it.
Thought crimes next.
re re Warning incoming
Yeah i know i said as much at the end :)
Greetings from Asbo Land
Asbos? Ha! How about "ABSO Zones"? I have the pleasure of living in an area which has received a "communal ASBO", telling all of the residents what we may or may not do - activities that are entirely legal for the rest of you. There are cameras so that Big Brother can enforce the rules if he chooses too.
Ironically, this is actually the nicest neighbourhood I've ever lived in.
Police State strikes again
This smacks again of this place turning into a Police State. I would guess that all they were really P'd off about was the fact that he slagged them off on the website. How can boasting about an imaginary crime warrant this ?. Why didnt I get an asbo for my own postings about corrupt officers ?.
Insulting incompetent plods is a legal offense?
That being so, the Chief had better not fire any of his minions, since to do so it would be necessary to allege that they weren't sterling constables, and we've already had judge demonstrate that any comments other than praise of the police is an offense.
Too sad that the buggers can't be arsed to get evidence to prosecute *real* crimes, though, isn't it? They're pretty good at murdering Brazilians in the Tube, though, so you have to give them credit where it's due.
And I though we had freedom issues here in the USA...
@ David Wiernicki
Indefinite detention in an off-shore military base without a fare trial.
PS: You can latch onto the fact that he said bad things about the plod but that wasn't the focus of his case.
All teenagers should be ASBO'd
On reaching 13, all teenagers should be issued with an ASBO and should then have to work their way towards it being rescinded.
Those who were bothered would clear their name, whilst those who weren't bothered would be placed on probation at age 16 until they mended their ways. Possesion of an ASBO would also entitle the authorities to use corporal punishment on these toe-rags until they learnt the error of their ways.
I heard a good one the other day..true story by all accounts...
This guy walked up to a bobby in rockness (music festival up here) and asked "If i were to call u a wanker, would u do me for it?"
The plod replied: "Yes i would!"
he then asked: "If were to think u were a wanker, would u do me?"
The plod replied: "Well... i couldnt"
he then said: "In which case, i think you are a wanker!!!"
And he got away with it too....
glorifying criminal exploits
poor bastard, in a world of eastenders, rap music, certain films, slebs doing bad things HE is the one who gets the abso?
to quote private eye: shurely shome mishtake?
When will kids learn...
If you commit a crime you keep your mouth shut if you want to avoid getting caught???
If this toe rag is so stupid as to boast about things like stealing a car then he deserves everything he gets!
> tell me again how the US has less freedom than our friends in blighty
Sure - like when a student got Tasered multiple times for raising embarrassing issues at a student debating society.
I'd like an ASBO certificate for my wall...
*>Norfolk police officers have bad breath and too much nasal hair.<*
There. Now can I have an ASBO certificate please?
(Look, I've used an icon this time. Very exciting...)
> If you are stupid enough to brag about nicking a car on the web you deserve all you get, regardless of if you were making it up to impress your mates.
How ridiculous. Last time I checked bragging about something illegal wasn't in itself illegal unless evidence backed the bragging - when of course, that evidence would be used to prosecute under somewhat saner legislation than the ASBO vote-reaper.
> and an ASBO is not sufficient!
Ooh look - the Daily Mail pair of tiny brain cells has fired. Yep, hanging's too good for 'em, bring back the birch, give 'em a spell in the Army etc. etc.
> I'm curious how deep a sh*t hole TB dug for you.
Deep, *very* deep. Around 800 years' defence of freedoms deep and it's *still* being dug.
We had the "Double jepardy" or whatever their really called laws overturned in South Australia a few months ago. No one but me cared. No one could see why I cared.
We have one less right that someone living in the Dark Ages.
It didn't help that there were specific references to DNA and of course how can you defend "pedo's and rapists" :(
He's a bad kid
All the official noise means nothing he's going to do this kind of thing all his life.Wild asses you can't tame this way. I know I'm one of them, but I never got caught for all the shit I did because I never told them I did it.God bless their dark little hearts they can't act any other way.
Improper use of semi-colon; advice sought.
Hang on a mo... the article says that he did, albeit somewhat stupidly (but not surprisingly being from Norfolk stock) post his antics online; but then ADMITTED to them when, again unsurpringly, the rozzers came-a-calling. It seems that standard due process and punishment has followed from this admission - albeit rather a soft punishment. So I'm wondering what it is that you find so "police state" about that?
Some posts on here seem to think that he was given an ASBO for purely posting his braggodocio on BEBO, but this is not whole case here as he HAD actually comitted the crime.
Paris - because I love her.
Can't really have a reasoned discussion without the page in question
So where is the URL of the page so that we can all see if any reaction at all was justified?
anyone with an asbo
...almost certainly deserves one. A far better deterant I think would be to start lopping their fingers off, one at a time, until they get the message being a prick towards society is generally frowned upon by those of us who actually get on with each other!
Is it me...
...or should the powers that be be encouraging the chavs to tell them via social networking sites what they have been up to? He should have an ASBO that requires him to blog everything he does to Livejournal along with photos.
Would make criminal investigations a lot easier.
Net savvy cops
I hope they read these social sites in their own time, I want my police on the streets protecting my property whilst I'm at work posting crap on the Internet.
@Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse
<quote>According to the Telegraph, Norwich Youth Court imposed the order after the defendant posted "comments and photographs on the social networking site glorifying his criminal exploits including drug-taking". He admitted a series of offences, including "stealing a vehicle and possession of cannabis".</quote>
Doesn't really say he admitted them after police question, though to be honest i have not read the original article so u could be right. But having personal experience of how persuasive the police can be it would not be surprising if he admitted after a few hours of interrogation.
I'm not intending to defend such an obvious idiotic lout but I would prefer there was more traditional forms of policing involved. If they had evidence to convict him of the crime they would have but they didn't.
Its when u take all these new 'crime/terror fighting' powers together is when u see the slippery slope. Sex offend list that was meant to help protect from dangerous sexual predators, which has 15 year olds on it and a guy who had sex with his bike. Terrorist related conviction powers that have been used to convict people that are far from being terrorists, and the current desire to detain people for 3 months without trail, if they had a case against them it wouldn't take 3 months.
no freedom of speech?
i think this is more to do with him 'insulting' the police than anything else.
once apon a time there was such a thing as Freedom Of Speech, when it was permitted for a person to say whatever they want. nobody had to listen if they didn't want to.
well.. now with the: new order UK police state, over-the-top political correctness; and no longer being allowed to say anything that offends anyone (especially about government, military or police).
freedom of speech is no more.
our various 'authorities' want and need to control us totally. even what we say.
the reason for that is because communications are so much better and people are starting to realise the truth of how very much we're being manipulated and controlled, by a few greedy and corrupt individuals and groups (who don't care about us at all. we are only slaves to them).
they are afraid that the general public will learn the truth and rebel.
this is what this is really all about !
Cops and Cars
I was watching TV last night and there was a programme on BBC showing a police operation using the number plate recognition system, nicking motorists.
There MUST have been at least 20 officers there with 2 pursuit cars, each person stopped was treated to at least 3 officers around them plus of course the camera crew - talk about intimidation, I think I would have been.
The point is, all those officers could have been better employed elsewhere, as could the cars
link to story in Norwich newspaper
@Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse
> then ADMITTED to them when, again unsurpringly, the rozzers came-a-calling. It seems that standard due process and punishment has followed from this admission
Bragging on-line does not constitute a legally useful confession to a crime, even if he did claim to have done something illegal. A legally useful confession is what's er, "extracted" at the nick when incontrovertible evidence showing he *did* commit a crime is presented.
> So I'm wondering what it is that you find so "police state" about that?
See above. He's been handed an ASBO for bragging about his "crime", not actually committing one.
[The Norwich newspaper link (posted in this thread) says:- PC Chapman added: “We got a DNA hit from the car he took, we searched his house and found the cannabis and on a targeted patrol we picked him up for the breach but the use of the internet was pivotal in this case.”]
Ok, "it's a fair cop guvn'r; I'll come quietly" - but then the surprise is that an ASBO was used for something more serious - an actual crime of car theft.
> not whole case here as he HAD actually comitted the crime.
Yep, agreed. It wasn't clear at first that this is what happened. (although I still find it creepy that the police are trawling sites looking for an easy boost to the arrest statistics)
OK, if I came over to the land of the free and said I was a commy I'd probably get shot. I've always thought highly of your two party right wing 'democracy'.