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Child protection site to show Scottish sex offenders

Mark

On the website 

Stop

We get lots of pictures of that guy who had sex with a bike.

Hold on, lots of us have sex with bikes..... just not the two wheeled variety/

JonB

Dopplegangers 

So, what happens if you have the misfortune to look like one of the pictured sex offenders and live in an area populated by rabid scum?

Hollerith

And no sex offender will change his appearance? 

The truly bad will take the trouble to dye their hair, grow a moustache, whatever, and some poor innocent bloke who 'kinda looks like' the photo on the website will have his life turned into merry hell.

So this is a really good plan, uh huh.

Richard

Interesting... 

One of the arguments given by the NSPCC (and many other child protection organisations) against publishing pictures of known offenders is that it's more likely to drive them underground and out of the sight of the police.

I guess that argument doesn't really apply when the offender is already underground or on the run...

Anonymous Coward

Sex offenders include morning after regrets 

Dead Vulture

Funny they quote 'includes child...' to make it sound more reasonable. Whereas it also includes a lot of fake 'rape' charges that are morning after regrets and backlash against rejecting a minga you wake up with the next day.

UK did a documentary about rape in the 90's, in it, the girl being interviewed about her rape claim, kept changing her story, the officers were not amused and did not pursue her claim. She couldn't even keep the location straight and changed it each time a problem was raised.

There was an outcry from womens groups, she was 'confused' because of the attempted gang rape, and the officers should ignore this confusion and not question her too hard. Oh won't somebody think of the victim!

So 'rape victim support' units were set up, where a woman claiming rape can get a sympathetic ear who ignores the little foibles in her story.

Now we have the situation where lots of these cases get thrown out, because the story doesn't stand up in court, and an idiot MP David Cameron calls for tougher sentences. "England and Wales have the lowest conviction rate - 5.7% - among leading European countries, he said.", well duhh, how many of those cases should never have gotten to court because the witnesses story is never questioned?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7090065.stm

What they're punishing here is a failure to report to police, a weird little extra punishment tacked on to a prison sentence. So they can never really be rehabilitated from their sex crime, the sentence just runs on and on and on.

But without rehabilitation, you create people with nothing to lose. The USA is the end game for this, every traffic stop is a shootout because every minor crime is lifetimes punishment.

Mark

Sex offenders? 

Will they only be the ones dangerous to children, or will it include children who've done the dirty with their girlfriend (both under age), people who've been caught short with no WC in sight and so on?

If the latter, I say "Oi! No! Leave it aaaht!!"

Anonymous Coward

Hackers apply here 

Unhappy

So what's this website going to run, unpatched Windows 2000 server or somesuch? Ah, think of the scope for uploading JPEGs...

Richard Rae

Check list 

Black Helicopters

right so

1) GPS, check

2) Shot gun check

3) biere check

4) look alike offender, or actual offender check

I doubt that people would just 'report' without any form of direct action....

Liz

Doppelgangers / Changed appearance / Going Underground 

We are told that this website has already allowed police forces in England to track down 9 of the 13 "missing" sex offenders originally poste, so the problems can't be too bad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7097059.stm

AC, ignoring your dodgy views about sex and consent, the point of the sex offenders' register and the requirement to report to the police is to protect further children (or, heaven forbid, women) from suffering at their hands. Punishment (if such it is) is a side effect.

Shakje

Re: Sex offenders include morning after regrets 

There are, of course, major failings in the system as far as rape prosecution is concerned. 5.7% is a tiny percentage, and a lot of cases are thrown out because evidence is not admissable because of strict criteria. A lot of cases also get thrown out because women are too ashamed to report rape early enough for evidence such as vaginal bruising to have gone.

Having a narrow minded "they ask for it" view is not just naive, but childish and completely useless.

Tawakalna

but the point was... 

Paris Hilton

..that the SOR was intended, and this was a public statement by both Tory and Labour govts pre and post '97, for serious sexual offenders only - convicted rapists, paedophiles etc. Now we find that almost anything can get you onto the SOR and in the public mind makes you a "serious sex offender" - such as getting walked-in on while messing with a bike, having a pee in public, getting caught in a bit of rumpy-pumpy with your Mrs in the woods, trying for snog, anything at all that has even the remotest sexual connotation. Even someone who's only cautioned has to report on the SOR for 5 years - and bear in mind that even for a caution you have to tell the cops if you're going on holiday, tell them if you move or going to be away for more than 2 days, give them access to your home on demand and to pry intio your personal life and that of your partner of girlfriend - and if you don't like it they'll fit you up to teach you a lesson (on top of some very dodgy cautions imposed by overbearing and bullying coppers who regularly take advantage of the *suspects* ignorance and desire to avoid mispalced vigilante justice.

So you see, Liz, the SOR isn't quite what it seems to be; what was a good idea to protect "children and women" has been perverted (no pun) into something else - yet another tool to terrorise the population. People won't even help a child in trouble now for fear of being accused of some bogus sex offence and suffering at the hands of bullying cops and a frenzied public.

Do you really think based on the history of the SOR that this *most wanted* website will stay for *most wanted*? seriously? of course it won't, next step will be a creeping inclusion of more and more sex offenders until de facto there's a *Megan's Law* and in effect, anyone could be accused in public on the basis of a passing physical resemblance or proximity of dwelling - as indeed happened during the News of the Screws *name and shame* campaign a few years ago.

Personally I don't have any *dodgy* views on sex and consent myself, but I don't want vigilantes prowling the streets looking for supposed sex offenders and I'd like to see the SOR used for what it was intended to be for, not a weapon of terror against some poor unfortunate who chose to take a leak in a shop doorway or made a fumbling pass at some girl.

but of course that will never happen, because all anyone needs to do is point and shout *sex offender!* and most people go into *kill the paedophile!" frenzies. I don't know how my kids get to school these days what with the paedophiles round every corner and the Islamic terrorists behind every bush.

My icon is Paris Hilton because I'm sure that some of the things that she does are illegal or ought to be! :)

Anonymous Coward

Assume... 

Stop

Firstly, I'm going to assume that most people reading this story are normal, intelligent people.....still with me? Good...let's continue...

Reading the comments above, there seems to be two main thoughts

1: Oh no, they can't put the picture up - what if the person who molests young children looks like someone else!

2: Is it all registered Sex Offenders or just the really bad ones!

I'm not looking to answer either to be perfectly honest, but let's look at a few things

Across this (once) fair nation, the Police regularly use Photo-fits in an attempt to locate and track missing criminals, POI (person-of-interest) and even sometimes witness's (gasp!). Hell, we even use them on national TV (Crimewatch) - but the general consensus is that it does more good than harm, in trying to locate people who commit some of the most violent of crimes.

Regardless of the flaws in the current system when it comes to actual going on the Sex Offenders Register, the again agreed consensus is that it does more good than harm.

If we, as a society, condone the publication of peoples (computerised) images across the airwaves for violent assault, attempted murder and murder, are you really saying that's ok because at least they didn't interfere with little children? That those guilty of these crimes do not have someone who almost, in a certain light, if you squeeze your eyes together, kind of, maybe, looks like that person?

I cannot accept that as true, and if it is, what sort of society have we allowed ourselves to become where we are more concerned about one type of criminal than another?

Yes our laws are flawed, yes mistakes happen, but we have to keep trying don't we? Where do we end up if we simply look the other way and do nothing?

Coat. Car. Airport....

Anonymous Coward

@Liz 

"AC, ignoring your dodgy views about sex and consent,"

We have a problem in the UK, that lies that should be weeded out at the interview stage are not weeded out in the case of rape. That in turn results in a high failure to convict rate for the UK for rape cases. Note that by the time the case gets to court, a lawyer is involved and coaching of the plaintiff has happened, so a resulting increase in wrongful conviction must also result.

You can also consent to tell lies and make a false allegation. But the police no longer investigate those lines of evidence. They look for evidence of rape, but ignore evidence of malicious false charges.

"the point of the sex offenders' register and the requirement to report to the police is to protect further children (or, heaven forbid, women) from suffering at their hands"

Yet re-offender rates are higher here than countries in Europe where this isn't done. Reporting your location at regular intervals isn't the same as 'stopping' anything. If it did we'd all report our locations at regular intervals and all crime would be stopped.

We are following the USA approach to crime and we know where that leads.

Mark

@Shakje 

Pray tell what in the AC's post said "they deserved it"?

Drop the persecution complex.

Anonymous Coward

@misrepresentation is not evidence 

"There are, of course, major failings in the system as far as rape prosecution is concerned. 5.7% is a tiny percentage, and a lot of cases are thrown out because evidence is not admissable because of strict criteria."

5.7% is the *HIGHEST* failure rate in Europe, it's not the small size it's that is so much higher than the rest. So why is it out of step? The only factor different that screams out is that half a case is investigated in the UK, the plaintiffs half. So bad cases are presented to court that would otherwise not be presented if both sides were investigated. By rights that number should be much higher, more in line with other crimes given the loaded nature of the prosecution mechanism.

"Having a narrow minded "they ask for it" view is not just naive, but childish and completely useless."

You cannot withdrawn consent just because you're later dumped. You cannot withdraw consent just because you were drunk and horny and regret it now. The idea of 'chased' women who don't consent out of marriage is fantasy.

Anonymous Coward

No such thing 

Stop

There is no such thing as the Sex Offenders Register in UK, the actual register is called ViSOR, The Violent and Sexual Offences Register. The register includes people who have committed any violent offence (ABH, GBH, assault, murder, manslaughter, criminal damage, etc.) as well as any sexual offence (rape, making indecent images, grooming, unlawful sexual intercourse, indecent exposure, sexual assault, etc).

I have a friend on the register for sexual assault on a minor, what he actually did was fondle the breasts of a girl drinking in a pub who later turned out to be 2 days short of her 16th birthday. Her mother who was with her in the pub reported him to the police.

A J Stiles

Bad Idea 

Has anyone other than you ever lived at your address?

Have you ever received a piece of junk mail intended for someone who used to live at your address?

Have you ever been refused credit because someone who used to live at your address once ran up a bad debt?

Yes to all three.

Being turned down for finance in front of a store full of customers while trying to buy a new washing machine was embarrassing (even although in all probability I would never see any of those people again). And having to borrow the money off my parents was also embarrassing. But at least it wasn't a life-threatening situation -- there were no angry mobs of people wielding pitchforks and flaming torches and baying for my blood because they thought I owed them a few grand.

The problem with the Sex Offenders' Register is that it is too easy to get registered nowadays. There's a world of difference between deliberately procuring under-age kids for sex, and copping off with someone you met in an over-21s nightclub and who later turns out to be just 15 years old; or between flashing at a woman, and taking a leak in a deserted alleyway because the local council have locked up all the public toilets. Getting carried away in a moment of heated passion in the woods is not the same as showing pornography to minors, and sometimes a drunken fumble is just a drunken fumble.

@Liz and Shakje,

Your concern is misplaced. It's not AC's fault that there are people who falsely cry rape, but it most assuredly does happen. And being falsely accused of raping someone does not do one iota less damage to a person than actually being raped. I firmly believe that making such a false accusation should be an offence in its own right, *precisely because* it trivialises the suffering of genuine rape victims (and their husbands and boyfriends; who will be forever wondering what they could have done differently, and also are unlikely ever to be able to enjoy sex again).

Risky

Does anyone bother to read the articles here? 

Thumb Down

And I quote:

It makes clear that in certain situations the photographs of offenders, including high risk child sex offenders who have failed to comply with the requirements of the sex offenders register, can be published. This will involve careful consideration of the legal implications and, in particular, the potential prejudice to any future criminal proceedings.

So it is limited to those failing to comply. Not everyone on the register.

There is a probem with the vigilante element (who probably are criminals looking to pick on someone further down the lader of depravity than themselves), however it seems odd that we would not publish the face of a know criminal because he like to rape children.

This move seem moderate and sensible, imo.

Anonymous John

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper 

Joke

to put the details on CDs and send them somwhere via TNT?

A J Stiles

@Risky 

"And I quote:

"It makes clear that in certain situations the photographs of offenders, including high risk child sex offenders who have failed to comply with the requirements of the sex offenders register, can be published. This will involve careful consideration of the legal implications and, in particular, the potential prejudice to any future criminal proceedings.

"So it is limited to those failing to comply. Not everyone on the register."

Yes ..... and VAT was originally a tax on luxury goods.

Spleen

I have a better idea 

Set up a social networking site specifically for sex offenders - give it a catchy name like "PaedoFile" or something. Then you won't need to put sex offenders on a list, they'll sign up themselves. You won't need to track them or demand they tell you when they change address or go on holiday, just sign up to their Twitter and they'll tell everyone exactly where they are and what they're doing. Everything they purchase will be broadcast to the world, and if that purchase happens to be "windowless van" or "50m of rope and gaffa tape", you can take appropriate action.

People used to be concerned about Big Brother, but then Little American Cousin asked us to tell him everything about us, everything we did, everyone we knew and everything we bought, and we said "sure". I don't see why paedophiles would be any different in that regard. They wouldn't take so many incriminating pictures and videos if they didn't have the same exhibitionist tendencies as the rest of us. Build it, and they will come.

Marco

Re: Doppelgangers / Changed appearance / Going Underground 

"AC, ignoring your dodgy views about sex and consent, the point of the sex offenders' register and the requirement to report to the police is to protect further children (or, heaven forbid, women) from suffering at their hands. Punishment (if such it is) is a side effect."

Now, Miss Liz, you don't think that Anonymous has a point? You believe women don't use an accusation of rape as a weapon against men here and then?

You might want to consult a seach engine of your liking to query for "rape false accusations divorces" and "child molestation false accusations divorces".

JonB

>sexual assault on a minor ...actually did was fondle the breasts of a girl drinking in a pub 

The "minor" bit is irrelevant, what he "actually did" was sexually assault someone at random, the guy should be kept under observation.

@Liz

"We are told that this website has already allowed police forces in England to track down 9 of the 13 "missing" sex offenders originally poste, so the problems can't be too bad."

This doesn't resolve the doppleganger problem, just because no-one has yet been lynched (wrongly, a correct lynching is almost as bad of course) doesn't mean that no-one will be.

Is tracking 9 perverts, who may not be especially dangerous (see above) worth the risk of an innocent weirdo getting twatted?

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