nuf said

Not only have they taken a hit from people avoiding Vista like the plague and going for (older?) systems that still sell XP, but now M$ is selling XP AGAIN (AFTER trying to take it off the shelves!) so users can buy old computers and extend hardware life, and avoid buy pesky new shiny machines...

Isn't it great when you have an effective monopoly?

Far too much web 2.0 thinking these days, everyone expects everything to be free.

Please don't think I'm trying to defend M$ in any way, but won't allot of SME's be signed up with volume licensing of some sort, and therefore unable to legally sell the license on?

I used to work for a company who M$ outsourced too, and had to face the wrath of angry Software Assurance punters who found thenselves restricted by even tighter controls than retail and oem versions of Windows.

If it is old equipment, why bother trying to run Windows on it?

Both technical and financial factors argue in favour of Linux in such a case. Something like Puppy will run on a really low spec machine, and make it perform rather better than the same machine trying to run Windows.

I count three times...

Most/all of these machines came with Windows preinstalled (Win2k for really old machines, XP for newer old ones).

A great many companies have site licenses or other agreements, especially so they can install vanilla copies of Windows (without Dell/HP/Gateway malware).

And now, ancient machines need a third copy.

If these rules applied to things apart from software, people would be more loudly upset. (Brian Miller: Imagine if, instead of losing the watch, you only lost the manual and the plastic holder the watch came with; you still have the watch, and you want to give it to your nephew or sell it on eBay but you cannot. You could sell it if you were willing to buy a new copy of the manual.)

I think that it would be better to discourage large software companies from going after owners of 3+ year-old desktops. (Although, a big enough "where's your license" scare might drive up interest in Linux [or FreeBSD :-] )

ps. You know where your licenses are, I assume. Does your mum know where hers are? Why won't anyone think of the parents?

I had a hard drive failure on my workstation recently and needed to look at an XLS spreadsheet file. I own a legal copy of "Microsoft Office SBE 2003 with BCM" but I had misplaced the original cardboard protective case for the CD - and the product code that's glued to it. The CD was fine in the hard plastic case that I use to safeguard my original media.

In desperation, I tried many of those serial number generators that you find so easily with google, but none worked ( on a crap pentium machine that I don't usually have connected to the internet or even turned on ). So I downloaded Open Office 2.3 to my workstation. It works.

Now I've found the original CD case and key for MS Office, but I can't think of a good reason to take the time to uninstall OpenOffice and reinstall MS Office. How do you channel guys compete with "free"?

>"When I lose something, say, a watch, I have to purchase

> another watch. I don't get it for free. Therefore, if you lose

> your software, you must ..." {snip}

You never "buy" Windows, you only pay for a license to be allowed to use it. The license has no specified time limit.

"Maybe I'll begin loading linux on the machines out of spite."

Don't do it out of spite. Do it to prove that the hardware is fully functional. After all, it's no skin off your back if the new owner prefers a stable, free OS with massive amounts of free applications over a bloated, untrustworthy, unstable proprietary house of cards that will BSOD if you happen to blink at the wrong moment, and chooses to keep Linux instead of buying Windows.

It seems like with most new machines you order online, the reinstall CD is an add on cost. Now Microsoft is saying without this you cannot resell the machine with Windows on it! It was legit to sell the machine to you in the first place! Good luck getting that reinstall CD a few years later.

This is just about as bad as if you have a machine crash with a purchased copy of windows. Now that copy is considered unusable on replacement hardware because Microsoft says your copy is part of the dead machine. When my CD player dies, I don't have to buy new music because it was licensed to machine I first played it on! Software should be no different!

Seems like at Microsoft's whim, they declare any version of Windows that they are not selling right now to be non-genuine.

Again, this is what happens when you let a company like Microsoft maintain a monopoly. They will abuse the customer more all the time.

So is this a way of getting cheap licences for XP?

I'd most probably install Ubuntu on any machines I recycle, but if they're cheap enough I'd possibly purchase one licence for my other half's PC.

Rob

P.S.

Where's the Paris Hilton angle?

Maybe she could donate bundles of cash to pay for licences for underprivileged kids?

Nice to see Microsoft serving the second user market. <snigger> And with a third license too<g>

I seem to remember reading that it wasn't open to the average member of the public who is selling an old PC or two on Ebay and wants to stay legal, but to companies who are selling/giving away old ex corporate systems in large numbers. Think thousands of units a year instead of hundreds. A nod to recycling and a bid to get genuine recycled windows on everything in the refurb market.

Otherwise people would be buying these cheap XP licenses and swearing blind that they were for this old P3 I have clutering up the back bedroom honest Guv..

Nothing wrong with sticking Linux on the PC. Then leave it up to the end user to decide if they want to go the legal route, or install a pirate copy, although I'd go for Linux on an older PC any day. Even better if its a face to face sale. Linux will make the system perform faster than XP on lower spec hardware most if not all the time.

It just will not ever beat out the free download of a liveCDrom like Vixta or Mepis, PCLinuxOS or Edubuntu. or the other 310 at the livecdrom . com site.

I volunteer at thrift shoppe charities, and private schools, in Florida, as some of us are not on vacation. Stuff the old boxes with Linux.

Overthrow the Evil Empire. Diabolical scheme is to pervert the little ones heads towards love of penguins and daemons.

No charity wants a repeat of the Salvation Army $4 million fiasco. (BSA lawsuit, early this millennium - w/sealed settlement).

It is still an issue of 'First Sale' law for all except those fat OEMs. Microsoft is milking the neighbor's cows a third time...

I won't dirty my hands, nor take advantage of the innocent milkmaid.

From the article;

"But, here's the rub: Although it is possible to resell a refurbished PC using its original copy of Windows, many firms fail to retain the machine's so-called certificate of authenticity (COA) or its restore disks."

From Brian;

"When I lose something, say, a watch, I have to purchase another watch. I don't get it for free."

Love the analogy, totally unrelated to the debate. Try this;

You lost the receipt for your old watch, but you want to sell the watch anyway. In the real world, that's been a non-issue for a few thousand years' worth of currency driven commerce. You find a buyer, negotiate a price and the exchange of goods for money occurs. Had one watch, sold one watch, have zero watches.

Microsoft has a new view (what they'd like to call "innovation");

To sell your old working watch you'll need to buy a new watch. Put the old watch in your left hand. Now, purchase a new watch in order to acquire a new receipt - put the new watch in your right hand. Now you can find a buyer, negotiate a price, and the exchange of goods for money occurs - for the watch in your right hand. Had one watch, bought one watch, sold one watch, have one watch.

The true genius is the dual strokes of the creation of an actual sellers remorse for something he didn't (couldn't) sell, and an attempt to re-inforce this left-field concept that a computer must come with (be sold with) expensive bloat-ware for it to be "a computer".

All that's missing here is the TCO analysis that shows enterprises how paying Microsoft for yet another CAL actually saves them money, while they're disposing of assets.

And lets see three cheers to the monopoly for cornering the "charity .. market"! Hip-hip ..