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back to article Record industry pushes ISPs to cut off file sharers

The record industry is pressing the UK's ISPs for a deal that would see persistent illegal file sharers automatically booted off the net. High-level talks between the ruling council of internet trade body ISPA and the Music Publishers Association are aiming to settle the historic tension between the two industries. Comments …

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Data banks?

The old fools lingo shows he's clearly got his finger of on the pulse here.

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Flame

Legal use?

How good will this 'digital fingerprinting' be?

My boxes at home seed and share pretty much all Fedora distros from the last 5 years, along with Gentoo Live CD Isos and other perfectly legal OSS etc. I use the same broadband link to run my commercial business. If I got kicked off and subsequently lost earnings when I'm not actually sharing anything illegal, rest assured that I would sue the shit out of everybody involved with making that decision.

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Same old, same ol

When this fails to halt the decline in record company revenues I wonder what the excuse will be.

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Rob
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When the record industry tries the technical

It's unfortunate that the record industry is both powerful and backwards. Stil, at least one fortunate consequence is that because of how outdated they are, they have an equally unenlightened view of technology.

With the decentralised infrastructure of P2P, and the content transferred over it being partial and encrypted, I can't see that they can take any relevant action short of disconnecting the entire nation from the internet.

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Happy

No fear, its just the sound of sabres rattling...

to appease a music industry thats no doubt whining and yet again pointing the finger at everybody but themselves.

The fact is at this point in time, and for the forseeable future - especially since their current deciline is shrinking them further - record companies are dwarfed by large ISP's and telecoms companies and no amount of whining about indirect copyright infringement is going to budge them on this.

For once the government being under the influence of big business is working in our favour here - who'd have thunk it.

And this man used to be communist - makes sense, he has swapped one unworkable ideal for another!

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Anonymous Coward

meh

shitty fucking country is shitty.

I'm not waiting 5 years for my fucking anime and j-drama (well to be honest most of what I watch wont ever get officially released).

Record industry can keep its shit music and holywood can keep its shit films, nobody wants them becouse they're shit. They should try and save money and stop paying lawyers and marketing people.

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Paris Hilton

ROFL

i can't help but laugh at all the proposals being put forth to catch these evil criminals.

the teenager in his/her bedroom ripping a file to their computer and sharing it, lets put millions of our tax £££'s into catching this person.

so much effort and cost is being thrown at this, that it massively outweighs the actual impact it is having.

P2P networks are popular with the vast majority of the online downloading community, but 99.9% of these people are not pirates.

that is the message that has been forgotten,

remember when we were being told that piracy is funding criminal activities, that stolen software, music and movies are being sold on to fund terrorism.

did they put half as much effort into stopping these people from distributing the copyrighted products that they seem so fervent upon stopping consumers from doing

i don't think so, they're going after the easy target...the 40 year old housewife who really is net illiterate, lets fine her thousands of £££'s. hell it's easier than cracking a real criminal.

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Anonymous Coward

A couple of things I'd like...

from the record industry...

1) SELL ME THE MUSIC I'M ALREADY WILLING TO PAY FOR

My vinyl collection is on its last legs and YOU have the masters, I just have a knackered Rega Planar 3. YOU have already issued most of the stuff I want on CD, so YOU have already done the necessary work. SO EFFING SELL ME IT, rather than telling me it's "out of print" FFS. If I want to buy a not very obscure 25 year old LP (e.g. Doobie Bros), WHY WON'T YOU SELL ME IT?

YOU, MR RECORD INDUSTRY, are **forcing** me to go the "illegal" route. DO NOT FORCE ME TO GO DOWN A ROUTE YOU TELL OTHERS NOT TO USE. SELL ME MUSIC I AM WILLING TO PAY FOR.

2) DRM benefiting the PUNTER as well as the Pigopolist

If you insist on using DRM, you could at least try to implement some kind of benefit to the punter rather than today's purely one-sided DRM. Have your DRM incorporate some kind of "owner-specific" features so that the paid-for content plays anywhere the user knows the (traceable) user-specific key. More specifically, make it *not* play anywhere other than places I want it to, e.g. if some lowlife nicks my (paid for) music collection, I want it to be useless.

YOU, THE RECORD INDUSTRY, ARE THE ARCHITECTS OF YOUR OWN FUTURE, BUT TODAY YOU ARE ARCHITECTING YOUR OWN DOWNFALL.

There, that feels better, even though it'll do no good. Sorry if it disturbs you. Is there anything else to report from InTheCity yet?

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More Big Brother

So, just how are ISP's going to monitor and check the content of EVERY file going through their system without reducing performance to something resembling a snail on vallium?

Not to mention the little problem of people deciding to encrypt files.

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Anonymous Coward

The real solution...

Is to create a massive botnet that just downloads unencrypted mp3s onto peoples PCs, and try and infect every home in the UK so that they have to stop being so bloody stupid.

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Anonymous Coward

End of the internet

Well nearly.

Lets say they somehow stopped ALL "illegal" files from being downloaded to your comp, packet inspection, port blocking, the lot.

Would there be any need for your fancy 4-10mb connection? Nope, i'll have the cheapest package possible please, 1mb is fine for anything.

The ISP's know why people sign up to the fast accounts, theres no point without all those "illegal" files.

And cut off the internet for those who download music?! I heard some music from a passing car, maybe they'd like my ears now.

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Anonymous Coward

This won't work

If the ISP are forced to stop file sharers the people sharing files will go on to encrypted 'dark nets' and new P2P protocols will be created to get around the problem.

What the people in charge seem to forget is the most people have a certain 'sod you' attitude toward authority they and will find a way around especially if what is being banned is believed to be right

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Black Helicopters

Bovvered?

Who cares? People will always find a way to get music for free. Record it from the radio, TV or off your mates.

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How did this start?

The Music Industry funds lobby groups to feed FUD to the minister and like a good little public servant seeing an opportunity to raise his profile - off he goes.

The issue is the fact that the 'Music Industry' is a dinosaur that is not capable of modifying its business model to accommodate the changes in technology and public demand.

The vast majority of criminals are the general public reacting to the unreasonable constraints created by the Music Industry as it struggles to make its outdated business model continue to generate revenue. Admittedly there are a minority of offenders who deserve prosecution for abusing the law to make money. The minority do it so that they can use the music in a manner suited to todays technology. Price is also an issue as the majority are of the opinion that high volume low cost is the answer that is easily achievable by todays technology. The Music Industry is adamantly sticking to the opposite, hence the conflict.

Unfortunately the people that suffer will be the public who do not have lobby groups to represent their opinion. This imbalance causes the minister to incorrectly assess the issue.

I have sent my opinion to him. Just one voice from the masses against the lobby groups but it may help. If you feel strongly enough to add your weight to our side of the argument the minister can br contacted via

info@dius.gsi.gov.uk. (That's the best I could find)

The more he gets, the more chance he may see things from our point of view and see through the FUD.

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Flawed logic

It makes no sense at all to drop an ISP account here as one account could be shared by multiple peolpe in the house. Also internet access for the normal household is fast becomming, if it is not already, a must have.

I know that when i bought my house I turned down several because of poor internet connection, I just use the web and internet far too much to have it taken away now.

The illegal sharing of copyright material is a problem that has always been around and people tried in vain to stop other mediums such as the cassette to cassette recorders from being released, ultimately everyone realised that wouldn't stop determined pirates and they stopped asking for this.

I beleive this will happen for the net. If people do insist in infringing copyright then I'd support financial penalties possibly moving through to court appearances for persistent offenders. But any attempt to shut a net connection down because of the activity on said connection, may deprive perfectly innocent people of that connection and stop say for example an immobile person from being able to shop at a online store for example.

The record industry is trying desperately to protect revenue but this is a sledgehammer to a nut and ultimately I suspect this demand will fail, not least because peolpe will just move to another provider.

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Ben
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Request to El Reg Staffers....

I have enjoyed the downloadable interviews/general meanderings of Ashlee Vance and friends. Most enjoyable.

However, would it be possible for you to actually arrange and record interviews with with politicos and industry leaders regarding issues such as this one? It would be interesting to hear such a debate with 'informed' people asking the relevant questions?

Surely John Humphries cannot match the interviewing skills of John Lettice now?

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Technologically Illiterate

So firstly in order to finger print the files they will need to see all of the file which would be difficult for something downloaded over possibly several days from probably multiple different peers.

Secondly does nobody in government understand the concept of encryption? I can get 256 bit AES on my web browser these days. I don't know if any of the torrent clients have built in encryption but even if not it will only be a matter of time before someone writes one.

If they start dropping ISP service for anyone who sends encrypted traffic e-commerce will simply cease so this one will not fly.

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Flame

Piracy is bad...Mmmmmkay

Reminds me of the ad on the IT crowd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gLoBpTfSdo

The Record Industry lives in the past! No one wants to go to the shop anymore to buy a CD or a Film so they download it! the choice to buy a tune or download a pirate copy is up the user but let's face it, 12-20 year olds are the people that listen to music the most and they don't have money to burn so they download it illegally, I remember being 14 and scraping £15 for a new cd. The internet has given another option to the consumer which the record industry doesn't like but it has to adapt!

There needs to be a revolution! no more can the fat record companies continue to rip off the world! There's needs to be something big! maybe an application to download music legally and give something back to the consumer! e.g Gig tickets, merchandise etc. though it would have to work with the artist and would not deal with any record company so in reality that would never work, but if someone wants to give me a couple billion, i'll give it a shot!

I love music and I love to support great bands that actually need to make a living but supporting record company manufactured no talent pretty girl/boy bands in order to make money then suing people for downloading it is the real crime!!

rant over, bored now

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Alert

Time and technology waits for no man

Hehe, I love to read all the spouting off that goes on when someone mentions putting controls on file sharing. There are only a couple of camps

1) How could they prevent people from sharing files,

2) What about the legal files being shared

If the will of the ISPs to prevent filesharing is strong enough it doesn't matter how annoyed you get, filesharing will stop because they will stop it. You can encrypt your data all you like, if they throttle your upload speed your files are effecively not being shared any more. Most "Home Users" have little legitimate use for massive uploads to the internet. "Of course sir, if you want to run a business from your home then we have just the product for you. It'll only cost you 150 quid a month for each gbyte you upload".

Which gets us to those people that claim their's are "legal" uploads and shares. They must be running small businesses and so they will be charged accordingly. If these small businesses don't actually make any money then that is not the ISP's problem. The Royal Mail won't deliver things for free just because you don't charge for them and pretty soon neither will your ISP.

Get used to the idea people. The Internet is maturing. It's been a hive of slightly dodgy behaviour for a long time and now it is going to get cleaned up.

Don't flame me for writing this, think about it, it is happening and will continue to happen.

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Tom
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Some ISPs might like this

They can drop P2P traffic and when people scream just say, "we had to do it, they made us, it's all their fault.

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Ho hum

When will they ever learn ....

The entertainment industry has promoted every new technology dating back over centuries. The entertainment may have been considered pornographic, but they grasped it, embraced it, exploited it and prospered from it.

Now, we have technology that enables people to copy CDs, DVDs or even make their own. What, no record company, musicians capable of making their OWN CDs and releasing their own music, oh dear, that means they will be retaining copyright too, we must obliterate this.

So, pick on a few miscreants, make a big fuss over it, selectively choose a few things with fancy names and blind a minister with science and see if we can put a stop to the internet.

Good luck, in a free society you are entitled to be wrong, but prohibition has never worked, anywhere, ever.

Microsoft still prosper, despite their software being copied all over the place.

A recent study found that the real destroyer of music profitability wasn't file sharers but supermarkets, yes, your friendly neighbourhood Tesco selling CDs at a price closer to their production cost. File sharing amounted to nothing significant in comparison.

Well, Mr Music Man, why not look to where the problems are before trying to solve them. P2P is not the problem.

Why not do something radical, republish your catalogues at a reasonable price with CD quality downloads and rake it in. The vast majority of people wish to be honest, why not try it out, if you charge 10p/track I suspect you would clean up. No need for DRM or Sony (TM) Root Kits, no need to brand everyone a criminal or spy on everyone, then just sit back and wait for your bank accounts to fill up.

The world and business works better with less regulation. Blaming everyone else because of your own greed is getting to wear a bit thin.

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Pirate

Lets See:

Its the year 2010:

All ISPs are running at a max 512Mb/s due to scanning all data passing through.

You have a £500 per year Video/DVDRW License (just incase you record something from TV

You have a £500 fine everytime your next door neighbour or man on the street hears music from your CD player.

All Cars have a device limiting the sound output (Failure to do this is 3 years in jail) so noone can hear your music.

And everyone has the same boring ring, ring ringtone on their mobile

Apple have the monopoloy on music downloads, and it now the richest company in the world (thats to its pay twice policy). They have also introduced fines for those who unlock their iPhones.

Over the top.......I suspect not ;-)

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Guy

The Great Firewall of the Uk

Lets just set up a firewall for all incoming traffic into the UK nationalise the ISP's then have a government department to make sure we don't do anything that they dont like or see anything that might be dangerous to us.......opposition politics perhaps. All p2p protocols blocked and the transfer of MP3 files made illegal. That would do the trick (we really need a sarcasm button on here) the record companies could no longer bleat about how the decline in music sales is down to piracy, although car boot sales would suddenly become very popular again, and they might realise that it's down to the content being pushed out that no one wants to buy, why sales are falling.

Lets get the party going with the slogan "we don't understand technology and don't want, so lets ban it"

Vote Chairman Guy for supreme leader

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piracy costs?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/19/vrs_value_gap_report/

apparently Apple and Tesco are significantly more to blame than piracy for the decline in record company profits.

When will they understand ending piracy is not going to get them back what they claim to have lost.

As for sniffing files, what about legitimate subscription services and the move by some legitimate content providers to using P2P type distribution models, how will they system distinguish between an illegal copy of a TV show and a legal copy ?

Once again a knee jerk reaction to generate a soundbite

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Go

@Rega Planer3 owner

Its the thought of actually wanting to buy the Doobie Bros that disturbs me!

Rip it onto CD (or magnetic media) from your turntable. Thats what I am doing with my 30 year old vinyl. (Project Debut 2, NAD 3070)

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Happy

@ Robert Maughan

You wrote:

"So firstly in order to finger print the files they will need to see all of the file which would be difficult for something downloaded over possibly several days from probably multiple different peers".

This is not the case.

The popular mobile music identification service SHAZAM can identify an audio track

by hashing a very brief sample and comparing it with its vast database, typically managing to identify a track from a 2 second sample.

The same rules apply here i'm afraid.

I tend to agree with the rest of your post though, Cryptor here we come.

(p.s. i made that up - pat pending!)

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Anonymous Coward

Lovely...

Triesman must be trousering some juicy backhanders to be such a slavish lickspittle.

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Alert

@ Guy...

This has already happened, in China.

Oh China!! The Communist Country?? The PEOPLES Republic??

Figures!

Ladies & Genitals, The Minister is a communist!

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@Teh_Vermicious_Knid

"So firstly in order to finger print the files they will need to see all of the file which would be difficult for something downloaded over possibly several days from probably multiple different peers".

"This is not the case.

The popular mobile music identification service SHAZAM can identify an audio track

by hashing a very brief sample and comparing it with its vast database, typically managing to identify a track from a 2 second sample."

Thats his point. You need to have the whole audio track in the first place *before* you can make a hash of it or perform any meaningful fingerprinting

You also need to consider the medium in which its being transmitted - tcp/ip. Its not a continuous audio wave like the telephone - its a series of packets which in the case of p2p come from different directions on the internet at different rates. You would need to assemble at least some of the track in the correct order before being able to check and see what it is. The more of the track you intercept, the better the accuracy of the match.

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Anonymous Coward

@Teh_Vermicious_Knid

>The popular mobile music identification service SHAZAM can identify

>an audio track by hashing a very brief sample

Not sufficiently accurately to know that it's not something else that just sounds similar but isn't on the database. This set up would have to be accurate enough for legal purposes.

You also need a data format that you can dip into at random without the other parts. Pretty easy to knock up something that breaks that...

To the whingers worried about not being able to nick stuff in some way:-

1) Don't worry, it's technically too hard to stop you.

2) If it's too expensive then don't bother with it, you don't have to nick it!

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Two responses

To Conway, what's the point of 8Mb connection when you're unable to do anything with it? People don't want "rented" files, don't want DRM and aren't buying Vista (so no protected path media that the industry wants). So the telco's will find themselves unable to sell broadband.

OK, so they won't have to pay to upgrade the network...

To Teh_Vermicious_Knid, two seconds is de minimis in copyright terms. So they need to use more than that! There's another problem that, if as the industry says, we bought a license and not a CD/DVD then I have a license. So downloading it is not infringing (I have a license). If I've bought a CD then there's no loss if I download it from somewhere (they still have 100% of my money).

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MPA out of touch?

It seams obvious that large portions of the music industry are rapidly moving towards a DRM free and even cost free (eg. Radiohead) model for music distribution. Is it really worth crippling the internet now and criminalising people for something that will be a non-issue in few years time?

Its only a matter of time before all music is free - artists should make their money by <gasp> actually _performing_ music! Like they did for 1000's of years before the record companies came along. Giving away recorded copies of their music should be regarded simply as free advertising.

Big bands already make most of their money from concert tours and the best way for a small band to get big is to get their music out to as wide as audience as possible i.e. by giving it away.

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Anonymous Coward

Massive upload of encrypted data

I don't actually run a P2P servent any more (consigned that to the 'mis-spent youth' category at this point) but I do transmit massive amounts of data encrypted to the internet by running a Tor proxy. Throttling uploads in the UK would prevent me from offering this free, legal and useful service and give me one more reason to emigrate.

The music industry used to own the means of production. Now everybody does and they really are just parasitic freeloaders. I don't buy music just because I don't download it any more - there are plenty of other (great) ways to get free music.

Bear in mind, folks, you and all of your friends all have the facility to borrow CDs from the library and rip them, or all chip in for one copy then sell it second hand once it's had a spin in each of your drives. Let's see the bastards shut down *that* option.

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Maybe...

maybe, just maybe the drop is record sales has something to do with the tripe that gets piled out from such esteemed musical stables as "X-Factor", and "who wants to be a media-whore".

maybe I'm gets getting old.

I like the 1st option more....

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Flame

More Reg reader lies and dishonesty

The sense of entitlement from you chumps is just amazing. You have no right to getting any of this material for free. Regardless of how half-arsed these prohibition methods are you have to accept the basic premise music is not yours to pirate, steal, giveaway or share. Please get that through your heads. This property is just not yours - in the name of all that's Holy can't any of you morons understand this? Don't you realise the more you do this the more Draconian the methods become in trying to stop you?

Also stop being blatantly dishonest as it's making me puke blood:

1. You like a fast Internet connection for downloading MP3s of music you have no intention of purchasing.

2. You don't believe that people that produce this music have any property rights

3. The fact you claim to use P2P just for downloading torrents of Linux distros is dishonest - it doesn't excuse the fact most P2P traffic is for bootlegging

4. Your arguments about fighting against the record industry is really just a mountain of bullshit to try and legitimise the fact you're stealing music. You aren't freedom fighters so let me just pop that bubble for you. You're just thieves.

5. Pay up or piss off.

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Flame

This sound like a job!

From the RIAA's UK division. It is funny to see that organisations that have no credibility of any kind and most of all no legal purpose can find they way to the top of the a country and then waste joe taxe payer money on something that is sure not to work and is a complete breach of privacy (snooping on someone data whiout a court order).

The enterteiment industry need to understand two things:

1. Low quality over price product is the >>ONLY<< cause of they declining sale. (i have a very large DVD collection, but i buy only from the wal-mart bargain bin)

2. There is >>ONE<< market: Earth. i want my TV , Music, Movie NOW there is no legal reason for witch i should i have to wait...

The RIAA/MPAA have ripped off consumers since day one, now the consumer fight back,,,,

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@Smell My Finger

Nice troll.

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@Smell my finger

While I totally agree that lots of people seem to think that they have a right to copy whatever media they want and screw the copyright owners, there is the slight matter of the bill of rights. It states something to the effect of 'no man shall be punnished for an offence without being found guilty in a court of law.' (Leaving parking tickets aside) The suggestion is that an automated system will switch off your internet connection, maybe someone else's connection that you are using via wifi etc. and, that the decision will be made by the ISPs, rather than any law enforcement agency. This is totally outrageous.

As an aside I totally agree with the Anonymous Coward who was talking about replacing his old vynl with CDs or possibly downloads (preferably non-DRM) I too have the same problem, loads of old Vynl that I'd love to replace, but most of it out of print. I have also gone down the road of a Dual Project 1, with which I am going to rip the vynl. In three years, I've managed about two LPs. I think that I should increase my speed...

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Anonymous Coward

@smell my finger

Shut up Larrs - nobody likes Metalica anymore that's why we don't buy your shitty music.

Nobodies downloading RIAA owned content it's all shit. They're full of shit.

The last US or UK made shit I downloaded? Aliens Special Ed, and the only reason I did that was becouse the fucking retarded ugly cow in HMV ID'd me. Dirty Hag. I'm 26 and don't drive why the hell would I have ID to buy a film I first saw when I was about 10.

Before that, who knows it was probably 9 years ago over a 56k connection.

Who the hell is downloading all this crap? I think they should all be locked up for listening to crap commercial music.

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Anonymous Coward

PUPO!

Hear hear! Smell My Finger!

(Or should that be smell smell?)

Pay Up or Piss Off!

@Mectron

>RIAA's (...) no legal purpose

The legal purpose is to stop or reduce the amount of theft of the property of their members. It's like saying Neighbourhood Watch or the Police have no legal purpose.

>1. Low quality over price product

Don't buy it then, but you have no right to steal it.

Just because Ferrari's have terrible reliability and are really expensive doesn't mean that I'm justified in nicking them.

>2. There is >>ONE<< market: Earth. i want my TV , Music, Movie

Yes, it's a market where you >>BUY<< stuff.

It's _their_ TV, Music, Movie not yours until you've bought it.

>now the consumer fight back

You're not a "consumer" you're a parasite, sponging off the thing you despise so much without giving anything back.

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This post has been deleted by its author

As a noted member of the WCIA

(that's the Wax Cylinder Industry Association to you whippersnappers) I wholeheartedly agree with this move. It is the Government's responsibility to ensure that new, disruptive technologies are not allowed to force the owners of entrenched business models to adapt.

One can look at any disruptive technology and see how its adoption could have been prevented by government to the benefit of existing stakeholders, without seriously impacting the existence of the least-important link in the chain of value, viz. the consumer.

Cars - the unwarranted holocaust of horse traders could have been entirely prevented at the slight cost of halting outright the personal mobility revolution. Result: thousands of jobs are protected, and the little man doesn't have any reason to be going anywhere anyway. Similar arguments apply to rail.

The telephone - Imagine Albert, the poor starving telegraph operator, his morse key dusty from misuse, his children starving at his feet because his specialist skills have been rendered redundant by the incessant march of hateful progress. IMAGINE IT!

Electricity - darkness is what the consumer wants, it's what the consumer has always wanted, and just because now there is some alternative to darkness, it does not automatically follow that this 'uptake' is related to 'demand.' Rather it is the callous act of those who would see the torch making industry destroyed. Bastards.

Instead of these epoch-making, world-changing innovations I request that the government instead recognise the importance of a strategy I will call Status Quo-gress. In this case, all new advances are allowed only when they are the tightly controlled brainchildren of the people who ALREADY hold the monopoly in this area. For instance, the replacement of Vinyl recording technologies with Compact Disc. This has the benefit of stimulating the economy and empowering the consumer without actually presenting any risk whatsoever. The committee deciding which matters are hated progress and which are beneficial quogress will be populated entirely by people who live 50 years in the past - I can supply a selection of music industry executives and Daily Express readers for this purpose.

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@Conway

There are in fact some very legitimate uses of P2P filesharing, i know that Blizzard employ this method for updating fairly popular games such as WoW or World of Warcraft and i do not doubt there are others.

I don't and have never downloaded music illegally nor would I condone it but a knee jerk reaction like the one being proposed is I would say the wrong approach.

I recommend as some others have here that RIAA and other companies who are being "hurt" by illegal downloading plough their money into better download solutions, look at iTunes and how popular it is.

It's not a hard decision to make and will still allow the music mega-giants to continue to keep their profits up, same for movies and TV shows. I mean come on the popularity of the downloading these is not down to the fact it is illegal it's because it is providing the consumer with what they want.

Frankly there is a market to be taken advantage of and the idjits like this who "sabre rattle" as opposed to putting effort into it deserve what they get..

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Silver badge

normal people don't upload?

"By Conway" said

Most "Home Users" have little legitimate use for massive uploads to the internet.

Hmmm, so what do you use your internet account for?

do you ever:

send emails? These are uploaded from your home machine...

Run a website? even if you choose not to host it yourself you need to upload the content.

Ever been near You Tube? How do you think the millions of legal videos got there?

Sent pictures or videos to friends/relations/online acquaintances...

Do you have a job? well one that involves accessing the companies network from home.

Have you ever used Skype? P2P!

And that is before we start getting into using torrents as a way of downloading Linux distributions.

OK, there is a vast amount of illegal stuff happening on the net, but that is no excuse to stop legitimate uses. Otherwise we should stop all procreation since some kids will grow up to be crims. Better make sure no one else is born.

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Anyone remember Brian Rix?

Long-standing exponent of the Whitehall Farce.

We have a sclerotic industry struggling, with its business plan in tatters, in the face of evolving technology. What's their response? Regress rather than evovle. Call in the lawyers, get out the big stick.

When that doesn't work too well, their next move is to engage with Whitehall and have our government listen sympathetically to the record industry's problems with 'that intertube thingy'. In the third act, there'll be people without skirts and trousers running in and out of bedroom doors, just wait.

The serious part, though, falls with a dull thud once again on the PBC - poor, bloody consumer. Listen, even if (they couldn't but stick with me) even if the record companies could identify every file-sharing protocol in the world and even if they could persuade the British government to shut 'em down in Britain, I estimate that it would be approximately seven minutes after shutdown before new ones were up and running. So why is this bad news for the PBC? Because it's the excuse our thudding, blundering, clodhopping government needs to apply their Stasi tactics to internet users in the UK.

Licences to use the internet anyone?

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Illegal yes, but useful mr smelly finger

Sure, it's illegal, and most people here aren't denying that.

It's a tiny bit short sighted to say fast connections aren't necessary though, to pick a few examples

1) The legally slightly dubious but morally more acceptable downloading of damaged material you already own. I'm not about to pay again for The Seduction of Claude Debussy, Vista or Planescape:Torment (which is no longer available) merely because the media is damaged. Hurrah for torrents.

2) High content online MMORPGs, second life etc etc.

3) Streaming media, free TV.

4) Free software/patches. There's lots of it, and it's pretty large.

Now, it may be that especially using 2) and 3) strains the download limit of many ISPs, but it's still illegal.

Still, I still enjoy watching idiots who claim that all their 100GB downloads are essential, squirm as they refuse to say exactly what they're downloading when challenged.

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No right to profit, either, smelly finger

In a Free Market, the cost of goods reduce to the marginal cost of that good. Which, for digital "entertainment" is so close to zero, you'd be spending vastly more on collection than you'd get from the sale.

That method of working is dead. And legislating to keep them afloat is trying to get their right to profit enshrined in law.

Dirty, stinking thieves.

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Anonymous Coward

Routing

Someone once told me that the internet sees censorship as a blockage and routes around it, is that still the case I wonder? . . . or perhaps we could go back to making our own entertainment, cut out the middle man, so to speak.

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What do people use 100GB downloads for?

New US TV series which have been broadcast there on TV but won't make it to the UK for a year (or two, or never) -- mostly done by my wife, who's mad on some of them.

Old BBC TV documentaries on things I'm interested in but missed or never saw (for example, Project Orion).

MP3 downloads of vinyl albums that I've got but are too knackered to transfer to CD (but somebody else has already done it) or that aren't available on CD anyway (I've transferred about 50 or my own vinyl albums to CD so far, but each one takes well over an hour including editing).

Put all that together and we average about 50GB a month, and *none* of it is stuff that I can -- or should have to -- buy.

I play in a band, we've made and sell CDs (mostly directly at gigs, certainly not through record companies), and I don't download "free" stuff that deprives an artist of a sale, I buy the CD. If I can't buy it because it's not available, that's different.

Ian

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Anonymous Coward

How will this work?

With many BitTorrent apps allowing the user to;

1) Randomize the port used for incoming connections, each time the app is used.

2) And, either Enable or Force Protocol Encryption, to make it difficult for ISP's to throttle-back P2P traffic.

How would ISP's and the music industry implement such a scheme?

How would they cope with P2P using TOR to connect to the trackers to give a limited measure of anonymity. Or even using a matured I2P protocol in the future?

Or even 3rd Generation networks such as ANtsP2P? http://antsp2p.sourceforge.net/

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