A Sony Entertainment Europe employee has been fingered for the warez leak of Manhunt 2. The as-yet-unreleased ultra-gorey game is the source of the latest fracas over violence in video games — a media cycle which more often than not transforms otherwise unmemorable titles into best sellers under the sheer weight of public …
I am sort of ambivalent
I sort of feel sorry for the testers of this crap but oh well thats life.
Are SCEE pressing charges? Smells like an advertising wheeze to me!
Given the censorship of the original and imminent re-release of the downgrade, I'd be looking to the marketing department for the real source of the leak, not some vanished freelance John Doe.
Hey, let's have a heated debate!
Re: testers; Question about plot
Regarding the testers of a game like this: if they don't like what they're testing (or are going to have to test), they can quit. Coincidentally, I did once. (Not really because I didn't like the product, but rather I didn't like the testing job we were going to have to do to it due to an unexpected sale.)
I had a look at the screens for Manhunt 2 and the violence seems to be a tad too dark for my tastes, but I am still curious about the plot and gameplay. Has the author (or, really, any non-gaming-specific news site author) read the NGamer exclusive review?
I say El Reg needs to have one of their boys or girls play the game (start to finish, natch) and write us a review.
They'll never learn!
Testers are always taking things home .. I've a whole bunch of funny stories, and not just games - ps2 debug kits (they were able to play copied disks) and even another guy's portable tv (I just moved into a flat and don't have one yet! Only wanted to play Gran Turismo!).
Bless em - they don't realise it's wrong to take things. Not their fault; I'd lose my marbles too if I had to play the same shit game over and over and over and over and over and (ad infinitum)...
Not too bothered about the game though. Much rather see a leak of Little Big Planet or something worth actually messing with.
Shite game I'll bet anyway
It's probably an attempt at publicity by SCEE given that most people are already slating the game. The first one was shit.....poor graphics, wheezy gameplay and a plot so thin it could have been written by a soap writer. It sold however due to it's slightly original (if not poorly designed) premise that you have to murder people in "aesthetically interesting" ways.
This will just be the same old shit but with some new ways to kill people. Wow.....I'm hooked already.....definitely something I wouldn't even waste bandwidth downloading, let alone look twice at it in a shop.
If its being released in the states shortly then theres no question an NTSC version will be avalible via bittorrent a few days later.
The only way you can play these copies is with a chipped ps2, which also removes the region restrictions meaning that those europeans who are that way inclined would have been able to download it and play it anyway reguardless of this 'leak'.
Either there is significent content in this 'play test' version which the source felt warrented public viewing, its a PR stunt or the source is just not that bright.
Which version will shift the most?
It'd be interesting to see what the two versions look like side-to-side and if people prefer the uncensored version - my guess is yes, given the likely audience.
I got bored with the first one pretty quickly but the idea of hacking up bodies with the wii-mote sounded like it could be good for a laugh. Ironically, it would be ideal for releasing the anger that builds up inside me every time I get told by the government that something is unsuitable for me.
Given some of the shit we know public authority figures get up to, why do we listen to any of their "advice"?
BBFC control Warez?
If people want to play the uncensored version so bad then let them. BBFC only should control what the company should release.
I'm not saying warez-ing is cool but if they want to stop it then that's a different battle entirely.
They know that game created a lot of controversy everywhere. So they released uncensored version - but [...drums..] only for cracked PS2 which is of course illegal and not so popular. At least not so popular in western Europe where most of the sales are.
IMHO, they just want to be able to compare both versions later just to slam the critics board.
IT'S A BLOODY GAME!!!!!
Why oh why oh why do so many people get their knickers in a twist over a game....hostel was brought out and everyone loved it....masochism, murder, torture, blood, guts, violence....this is fine but but a control pad in front and all of a sudden it's immoral!
Walk into any video shop and you have your choice of thousands of people being being mamed and tortured and murdered in soooo many ways it's untrue....for instance Hills have eyes 2....one plot in this which you the viewer actually witnesses is one of the freaks RAPING yes RAPING one of the women....now apparantly this is fine and to celebrate lets put it out on sky box office!!!!!!
People forget that they have the option...1 DON'T BUY THE EFFIN GAME and 2 TURN IT OFF AND TAKE IT BACK IF YOU DONT LIKE IT....i'd wager any money that any adult that bought this and were shocked at first, would never in a million years take it back....it would be too much like watching a horror movie through your fingers...you just couldn't keep away.
I actually found the first game a bit dull and linear but the opportunity to have a choice in 'finishing' people was a very nice touch. Soe of it was too much but then YOU are in control of how you 'finish' people and more importantly playing the game in the first place!
I hope we do get a version of this game, and hopefully a reworked version on the PS3 (actually...maybe not ha ha!).
All in all i hope common sense prevails and that this game gets a UK release....in the meantime, ebay holland here i come!!!!!!
Transformed into bestsellers?
Is that actually true, or is it just a little dig at anyone trying to protest about *any* game?
Game ratings (and definitely a Sony scam)
Never played the original, but if other comments are to go by I wont bother.
A game's rating should take story line into account. If it has a deep and involving storyline it should encourage making the game available (even if at 18+). No storyline plus violence should get a lot of marks deducted.
We need more games like Deus Ex back on the market.
This is nothing new.
Games have always been leaked by unscrupulous employees to cracking crews and the like since the days of the C64. It was common for pirate copies of Amiga and Atari ST games to be in the playgrounds across the country days if not weeks before they hit the shelves.
Silly little bleedin' heart whiners.
It's. A. Game.
The little people on the screen aren't actually real, they're not actually being killed and 99.999% of the human race realise this.
Stop trying to control my viewing, recreation, interaction with anyone or anything. Next you'll be after the numerous websites that broadcast uncensored news because of the graphic depictions of war etc.
Oddly enough they don't get banned ... just relegated to the internet.
If you don't want to watch or play it's simple. Don't.
If you don't want your kids watching or playing, actually pay attention to them and what they're doing and stop expecting someone to do it for you.
In the age of the internet you can't control what we view/have access too. You can stop the illegal stuff coming through and being hosted when you eventually notice and/or get told, but just a.n.other game about killing ? C'mon. Be real. Out of all the games out there right now you think MH2 is the worst depiction of visceral gore and mutilation ? Are you completly blind to the current gaming market ?
You may aswell ban Manic Miner or Mario.
RE: Silly little bleedin' heart whiners.
Completely agree with your comments, unfortunately that's not the world we live in and no, 99.999% don't realise this, hence the need for the BBFC in the first place.
Majority of Joe Public nowadays don't give a monkeys what their kids are doing (hence we now have the term and social group we refer to as CHAVs).
We live in a society where ole Joe Public expects to be told everything they can and can't do and then they get all arsey when things like fuel prices go up. If you don't take an active interest in you surroundings I don't think your entitled to whine about them.
Meanwhile the rest of us who are awake and use our brains are penalised.
Theres a name for films like Saw \2\3\4 and hostel \2
very apprpriate i thought , and this game fits in there too.
Maybe I'm growing up a bit at 36, but i think films (especially) and games where the the whole plot is just a vehicle to portray horrific torture and mutilation is just for sick F***ks that get off on torture.
And dont tell me theres a story to it, theres a story to how i drove to work this morning - that dosent make it entertainment.
If pepole are watching this, enjoying it because inside their heads they are pretending that they are the ones meting out the violence, then perhaps theres an argument for censorship after all.
p.s. I play counterstrike a lot. theres a world of difference tho.
Go and play your holier than thou games somewhere else will you? "Oooh the nasty violent gory games are bad, but the game I play is OK despite the violence". Counterstrike has less of a plot than Manhunt, but it's OK 'cause the other team are bad guys and you get to pick them off from a distance?
"If pepole are watching this, enjoying it because inside their heads they are pretending that they are the ones meting out the violence". Yeah, cause you never do the same in your beloved FPS? Get off your high horse. there's no cause for censorship in an adult society, just people like you who can't tell the difference between harmless fiction and reality.
Re:Silly little bleedin' heart whiners.
I think your entierly missing the point.
Yes it a game but as the graphics and gamelplay on next gen consoles are another step closer to reality the line between a game and reality is getting increasingly thinner.
There are many movies that have high levels of violence in many cases worse than depicted in current gaming titles but there at least you are removed from the action as you are only watching it.
This game in particular positivley encourages you to be a gratuitous as possible when you kill somebody. Is that really entertainment ?
You think theres no link between gaming and reality think again. Lewis Hamilton already knew how the drive around the Interlagos circuit even though he'd never been on it before and that was because hed driven around it hundereds of time in a computer game.
You can see the effect games are having on youth culture right now. Gun and Knife crime is at an all time high and where do you think the idea that its fine to walk around with deadly wepaons comes from ?
re: IT'S A BLOODY GAME!!!!!
completely agree.... if they ban the 18 rated games, then ban the 18 rated films, music and anything that is shown post-watershed on tv!!!
so sick of this censor crap!!! If they want to protect kids, start fining the parents who buy their kids 18 rated games.... they would if they bought them 18rated films!!
My next door neighbours kid who is about 14, was playing Halo 3 the other night (I noticed the glow of his huge 42' LCD... it was blocking out the light from my puny 28' CRT!).... and the other night, some 14 year old sounding kid calling me a complete noob and let me know I should suck his d*ck.... now all I want to do is go next door and beat the 14 year old up.... is it the game that made me violent? No... its the people who shouldn't be playing! The night before, an even younger sounding kid was crying to him mum that he was playing Halo, and she should bring the pizza to him.... then turned round and told me he bounced his "weaner" (must be american word for cock) off my mums face last night..... I was less than impressed, but my entire team was stumpt for a comeback!! ... so i guess it worked! lol
Besides - its unfair he gets to practise from 4pm-7pm while I'm still at work.... thats the only explaination why I got my arse kicked! lol
Anyone who knows a good come-back for the weaner comment, let me know!! :D
anyone good with a soldering iron?
Because I fscked my ps2 last time I tried to chip it. Specially after all the attention this game got I really need to know what the fuss is all about.. maybe see if I can get both versions and compare.
I`m sure I will be sorely dissapointed though as the first created the same fracas and was quite dull.
@mark: If games like this keep "sick F***ks" from doing it in the real world then that is just a bonus.
I think in the end games and movies like this are like porn in that nobody cares about the story it's the visual aspect that makes it interesting. From a financial point of view, violence just like sex sells, the reason it sells is because humans are base creatures by nature.
BTW: counterstrike is still murdering pixels.. just like manhunt, SoF, UT, FEAR etc. the only difference is details and packaging
Scared to admit something?
"If pepole are watching this, enjoying it because inside their heads they are pretending that they are the ones meting out the violence, then perhaps theres an argument for censorship after all."
Spelling aside, you're wrong there, I think the majority of people watch it to feel scared, putting themselves in the protagonists place, not the "bad guy". If that's how you feel about these films then perhaps you shouldn't watch them after all, but let the rest of us enjoy them thanks. btw, Where did you read about "torture porn?", The Sun????? Please refer to the post above yours!
What's the argument Mark?
You say "perhaps theres an argument for censorship after all".
Is the argument that you don't like it and that you think they are sick F***ks?
I'm not sure that's really a very strong argument for censorship. I don't like lots of thinks, and I think the people that do aren't right in the head, but does that mean I should be able to say that they can't like those things (or at least can't have access to them).
No, YOU'RE missing the point, Andrew...
"I think your entierly missing the point.
Yes it a game but as the graphics and gamelplay on next gen consoles..."
It's a PS2 game we're talking about here, or did you get lost looking for the SOF thread?
In Glasgow, there's been a culture for carrying knives etc for god knows how long. Maybe it's because of games? NO, get a grip! The only reason for all the gun crime is these bloody kids getting away with murder *ahem*. Put them in the fucking stocks, bring back the birch etc and beat the shit out of the little fucks until they learn some fucking sense. National Service anyone? Yes, then they can learn to blow people's heads off for real. Too many fucking morons are allowed to breed.
No, I don't know if I'm joking either.
Many excellent films use violence in ways which have artistic merit, but Hostel (for example) had practically no redeeming qualities and was merely a pathetic waste of time.
Likewise many violent games have excellent gameplay (GTA, Counterstrike, etc) but it seems to me that Manhunt is merely an empty shell of a game for freaks who like the idea of torturing people.
It's a game?
Heah, how about managing a concentration camp in a game? You get to kills jews in ways you never imagined while trying to keep the temperature in the ovens constant. Or a cute game about raping toddlers and strangling them to death? Their little squeaks when they choke will be presented in 5.1 sound.
It's a all question of how low you will go. And some of you have gone to quite some depth.
Why people need to play games or watch movies where pity for the victims is replaced by enjoyment of their pain, eludes me. Maybe some of you can fill me in.
Maybe this is how we should feel about violent things?
It sounds to me like by provoking such a "this is very f*cked up" reaction, maybe it's a more healthy representation of violence, rather than the glamourising that we get on a daily basis. Hacking people up and arranging the bits => Bad , capping them in the head => good???
It would be interesting to see how people who played MH and MH2 all the way through felt about them though. Was it an exercise in seeing what happened next, a test of skill/ingenuity or truly relishing every moment of torturing someone (which does sound a bit worrying). Does anyone actually study this stuff?
I work in the same SCEE department as the guy responsible for leaking the game. There is no stunt here, simply a foolish person who wanted to claim bragging rights and it's cost him his job, and possibly a lot more. No one has much sympathy for him either due to the overly stringent security measures introduced since the incident that we all have to bare the brunt of.
RE: No, YOU'RE missing the point, Andrew...
No your still missing the point. I understand that this is a PS2 game and not next gen. My point was that WITH the next gen consoles the line between fiction and reality is getting thinner.
"You may aswell ban Manic Miner or Mario." you said which highlights the point nicely. I really doubt that anybody is going to confuse Mario with a real plummer or imagine that miners really do have to hack their way through monsters, toilets etc on a daily basis. If you look at tiles like Grand theft Auto and Saints Row the Gang 'n Guns culture is the whole point of the game that mirrors what is really happening in suburbs and inners cities right now. Now you cannot specifically place the blame on the aforementioned titles but I think its naive to be of the opinion it has no effect.
During the Holocaust Thousands of otherwise normal German soldiers were involved in the brutal extermination of millions of Jews. They did this beccause culturaly it became normal and accepted. No it may be an extreme example but the principle still applies. The kinds of Movies and Games we are playing are making brutal violence culturally acceptable to many people and unless we have appropriate measured in place its only going to get worse.
Not an Anonymous Coward.
@ mark - regarding "Title" ie - Counterstrike
I play battlefield... therefore we're both habitual murderers...
I play need for speed - supposse I'd present myself now for 4000 speeding offences
I play GTA (san an) - which puts me into cartheft, hit&runs, gun crime etc... the key word here of course is "PLAY".
"constantly encourages visceral killing"... LM(funky)AO... this government is guilty of that - every time it tries to introduce another stupid law, the board of censors are equally guilty of winding everyone up with their draconian attitude to what is quite simply an idea for entertainment with a severely limited potential audience (I like that "Torture Porn" tag) - but look how popular this thread has become. In fact - when Manhunt2 finally gets whatever rating it is going to get I bet that the bulk of sales will be to people who only want to know what all the fuss was about... lets face it - this is just another arm of free advertising now.
what a great debate. pity reg closes them after a while
I like fps games because of the mouse and keyboard control is so immersive and fluid. i dont know why people bother trying on those console thingies. but yes i am still shooting people.
glad to see a couple of people of agree with me its going to far. at the end of the day censorship dosent work( case in point this version of this game isnt even available),
i suppose censorship can only work if responsible parents force it on their kids.
i also agree i dont want the govenment making decisions like that for me. freedom etc.
its like the plan to hike up booze tax because of binge hooligans - the rest of us lose out
"Counterstrike has less of a plot than Manhunt"
so does table tennis, but your playing real people.
"I'm not sure that's really a very strong argument for censorship. I don't like lots of thinks, and I think the people that do aren't right in the head, but does that mean I should be able to say that they can't like those things (or at least can't have access to them)."
good point & point taken, but if those things are desensitizing gullible people (like the natzis in a later post), surely we should try to do something?
theres gotta be a line somewhere where it becomes dangerous.
reminds me of the usa's gun problem because of their "freedom to bear arms"
RE:RE: No, YOU'RE missing the point, Andrew...
I think you're generalising over the whole of society and current industry we live in. What you're saying is completely true about the jews and world war two and also about street gangs and kids with knives and guns etc....
A previous comment was stupid enough to say why not do kiddie fiddling or concentration camps. i think this guy's the one people need to be wary of. i can think of numerous games i've played where i've blown off the head of a 'baddie' with a sniper rifle and smiled....so much so that some magazines encourage you to do this. What about the Hitman games that were out....there's a film being released end of november based on the game.....suppose all the fans of agent 47 are go out with a couple of highballer's (i think that's what they're called) and shoot out all and sundrie, oh and then of course you can strangle some of them too as to not to make a sound....calssic ha ha!
The reason i'm responding to this is that we're talking about this ONE game and not a general concensus on whether or not games/music/movies in general are bad.
The blame on kids immitating what they see and act in games is a reflection on learning the difference between right and wrong and that's instilled by parents....games and movies and even music with hidden messages are here to stay so we must learn to deal with it not go on about how it shouldn't be here!