back to article Paper calls for local ID cards

A think tank has argued that local authority "entitlement cards" could be more practical than the National Identity Card New Local Government Network (NLGN) has published a pamphlet (pdf) on the subject, entitlesLocal Identity: The role of local entitlement cards in public service delivery. It says local cards could prove to …

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Not sure how this is "local"

Seeing this "They could also enable councils to better share information between departments and be extended to services such as NHS trusts and police forces" made it sound remarkably like it was national. As the N in NHS does still stand for National, doesn't it?

The other problem with locally issued cards is that any person with access to the information held on the database - so pretty much all local council officials - are more likely to know the people in the database and use the information held in an inappropriate manner.

I've seen the quality of staff who work for local councils and I'd be quite happy if they didn't know a single thing about me, let alone everything that the Government wanted to know.

This sounds like a national ID card scheme being brought in via the path of least resistance. Or I could just be paranoid.

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Right.

Because local government has plenty of money to spare for big IT initiatives, doesn't it?

Or, is this just a rebranding exercise? Again?

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Anonymous Coward

Where's my local...

No, I am not asking where my local pub is, I discovered that many moons ago.

As an eternal student I am wondering where I should register for my 'local' identity card. I am very much a national. Let us consider the life of a fictitious academic:

2000-2003: BSc, Bath

2003-2004: MSc, Bristol

2004-2006: PostDoc, Manchester

2006-2007: PostDoc, UCL

2007-present: Lecturer, York

Within 7 years our fictitious academic will have required 5 `local' identity cards....

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I want one!

OK, I have been turned right round.

I want a Rockall ID card.

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Anonymous Coward

Help!!

The one thing scarier than UK Gov giving huge chunks of my tax money to BigTime Consultancy plc llc etc. in order to implement a system to track all the law abiding citizens with nothing to hide (TM), is the thought that the local council will be doing it.

Having worked for both types of firms, my ideal career move will be to go and work for a think tank.

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Why not just use credit cards?

Why not just use credit cards?

Why on earth set up an entire system to administer ID cards (local or national) when the banks have already done so?

OK, you have to do something for people who don't or can't have credit cards, but at least government doesn't have to fund and administer the system.

Plus you get widespread electronic voting booths for free (aka cash machines :-)

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Such a clever idea

As soon as I read the first sentence I thought it was a joke. My local authority can't organise the collection for disposal of an old mattress without falling over itself.

The ideas presented here raise a mass of questions.

Is this a way to get national ID cards in by the back door, and get local government to pay for them? What is an 'organically-generated user service profile' (is it grown in a vat of nutrients?). Would my card-carrying entitlement to have an extra bin of garden waste collected every other week be of any use when I have a road accident while visiting relatives 200 miles away? Remember, the NHS and police have access to this database so I'm sure the information will be useful to them.

The good news seems to be that I can 'update my biographical footprint easily online using an account PIN, password, and/or other identifiers'. This is of course a time tested method of ensuring secure access to online data. The data that I enter using this secure method will of course be totally accurate since I can be trusted in these matters. Having made that cynical though valid comment, I'm sure there will be data that I can't see and that I can't access or change. This is the data that the local authority or more likely central government will control, available to certain areas of local government and to the police of course.

It's not likely that a local authority will have the IT services or expertise to set up and run a system of this nature. For reasons of economies of scale, it would be best if the entire IT aspect were centralised, under national government control would be appropriate I'm sure. Don't worry about losing the feel of your local identity though, your card will be printed with your local council crest to give you an "accepted form of identification that reflects their own self awareness and individuality", such a thoughtful touch.

I suspect that everyone will need one of these cards, or they wont get their 'entitlement' such as any benefits they can claim, appropriate and timely hospital treatment, or even their domestic rubbish collected.

Hence, under the guise of helping you and making your life so much easier and efficient, while under your control and review; government will introduce a national ID system that you don't even know about. Remember to carry it when you're visiting distant relatives in case you are involved in an accident, there could be problems if you don't. Better still, carry it with you at all times, you know it makes sense.

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Silver badge

Creak?

Did I just hear a back door opening? Once we've all got local cards, they'll unify the database into a big national one.

Not that I use the local leisure services (being based in a different district council to all the main ones nearby), nor public transport (three buses a day doesn't encourage use) and I'm fortunate enough not to need benefits. so I guess I'll still be able to refuse.

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Anyone for tattoos?

There's a shop down the street doing a special deal on barcode tattoos for your arms and forehead (for those who have no arms). Simply pay your £100 and you too can be a part of this one glorious ideology.

Praise Labour. Praise the democracy *cough* we now live in.

All your DNA are belong to us.

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Eh?

"and to access local services, such as benefits, public transport and leisure facilities."

Why the fucking hell would I need an ID card to access public transport and leisure services?? What's wrong with a frigging ticket?? Jesus arsing christ on a fucking bike!!

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Anonymous Coward

Local identity ?

Yeah! Give the power to the local Gestapo.

It is for your own good, for the sake of the nation. the system will also prevent crime and organised terrorism, saved the planet, cure cancer..., and part of the small print know all your whereabouts, fingerprint, dna, credit record, medical records, and more if appropriate to save the nation from the fat yobs culture.

anyway:

it's not a local identity card! it's a local service card ! it may not even say who you are, just the services you are entitled to.

Will I get nectar points if I use the local council office services ?

Why need one in the first place ? if I don't pay my council tax, they come and knock on my door very quickly. They suddendly know who I am and everything about me without the need of an identity card.

It is going to be linked to my bin with RFID (ho sorry it's not RFID anymore it's a real time location system)? so that I get a refund when they miss collection and that the street stink of month old rubbish, or if I don't use the non-existent local council services.

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g e
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It's an accounting scam

I agree with the 'join it up into National' sentiment posted above as it's usually the kind of transparently obvious sneakery the uk.gov perpetrates.

However getting the local authorities to implement it means it doesn't come out of central governemnt budget doesn't it? So the LA's get given some implementation money which they'll mess up with - after all they're incapable of taking away all my household rubbish, why should they be more competent at such a complex undertaking as ID?

Anyhow the gov then gets to creatively account for the scheme and then pat itself on the back for integrating it as National later on at a much smaller central gov outlay.

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Panopticon

Yet another step on the slippery slope toward the panopticon society the government so dearly wants!

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Local cards

"Local cards for local people". A perfect slogan for Royston Vasey Parish Council.

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Local Cards, for local people!?

Well.... I suppose you could just slap a photo onto a local authority libray card? they already work on the principle of proving your identify and a local residency.

or, why not jsut make veryone submit their photos to Experian (tm)** as i am sure their credit references and address history tracking systems seem to know more about myself than I could recall accuratley and they probably have more info about me than they divlulge via there credit reports.

the "market profiling" can probabaly predict my future behaviour and patterns than any underfunded government schemes!

or, inf fact experian could issues ID and Natioanl loyalty cards and pay us for the information that would ebnefit them more than us, and if we could use the loyalty card as esso and tescos, or when we vote or access local and natona services maybe we they could send us further annaul payments in lieu of the information they collect.

this would have the benifits of costing the citizen nothing, and they would find a chaper way of adminitering the scheme than the government and lets be honest they are going to get the data from tescos, bp, barclay card and who ever anyway!!!

** Other credit refernce agencies and products exist...

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Erm No thank you!

I dont know about anyone else but im none for having anything to do with a mandatory ID card scheme, whether it be national or local, and there is the word " mandatory " where are my Civil Liberties in all of this what part of a democratic society allows something to become mandatory?? what happens to people right to choose?

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Anonymous Coward

Reflect my self-awareness?

I'm sorry, what? Can I display my self-awareness and individuality by pointing out that this woman is talking nonsense?

Will someone please stop her writing anything else until she's read all the chapters of this: http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/gowerse/complete/index.htm

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how to do it

There are some potential benefits to having a secure id card, but those benefits are not given by central databases and biometrics and all the other (hugely expensive) crap the government keeps trying to say is needed.

What they really need to do is add a chip to existing forms of id, like driving license, and possibly create a stand alone id card for those with nothing suitable. the chip would contain an electronic version of your details.

To use it, put the card in a reader, just like a chip and pin card, type in your pin number, and the data is then available to the hospital/ job centre/ whatever to read, and their computers also verify the crypto signature on the card to know that the data isnt a forgery.

that way the authority can be happy its an authentic unforged card thus proving my identity, i know exactly who is getting a copy of my details because it needed my pin number, and the data they get is only what was already available via existing identity documents.

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Anonymous Coward

ID Cards

All comments noted. However it appears none of the commentators actually has any experience of ID Cards. Given this I would refer them to the Hong Kong system. Biometrics - thumbprint. Data on card - date of birth sort of thing and if you are allowed to be in HK. You can choose to add additional data, but that is your choice.

OK, HK only has a population of around 8 million, not like the UK's 60 million, but my ID Card only cost me a couple of quid. Think about it.

And this in in China, a backward police state most Brits think. Funny that.

We've also lost our dolphins.

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