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back to article Saudis to execute Sri Lankan teen

Amnesty International has condemned Saudia Arabia's decision to execute a 19-year-old Sri Lankan maid accused of murdering a baby in her care - despite the fact she was 17 at the time of the alleged offence and has denied confessing to the crime. Rizana Nafeek was arrested in May 2005 in Jeddah and was "believed to have …

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Silver badge

Hmmmmmm

" Saudi Arabia applies the death penalty for a wide range of offences. Court proceedings fall far short of international standards for fair trial, and take place behind closed doors.

Defendants normally do not have formal representation by a lawyer, and in many cases are not informed of the progress of legal proceedings against them. They may be convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress, torture or deception."

Sounds familiar....

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It's not a 'scandal' .,...

... it's an offence to humanity.

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Wicked Webs of Deceit in Inflamed Passions?

And what were the parents of the four month old child doing whilst a 17 year old Sri Lankan maid was trying to save the child's life..... or whatever else you want to put there from the story. Sounds like a dodgy dossier type of thing spun to hide the truth........ and an inconvenient truth, at that.

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Anonymous Coward

I give up.

What's the IT connection?

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Anonymous Coward

..and we do business with this country?

Oh, silly me, we're in the UK... money before morals.

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Anonymous Coward

And the IT connection is?

To quote the main page header, "The Register: ***Sci/Tech*** News for the World".

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The real price of oil

When will someone stand up to these arabs.

It seems that oil is worth more than human life. It also shows how much western governments really care about human life too, when they refuse to do anything detrimental to relations with Saudi Arabia.

Saddam wasnt murdered because of his treatment of Kurds or anyone else, he was murdered because he posed a threat to oil supply.

I am horrified and dismayed at the lack of support for this girl.

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Anonymous Coward

Nice to see...

that Saudi Arabia are keeping up with the rest of the world in stamping out archaic, vicious and barbaric practices such as public beheadings and executions. They're obviously a modern nation that will go far.

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Anonymous Coward

Pot, kettle?

"Court proceedings fall far short of international standards for fair trial, and take place behind closed doors."

Just like family courts in the UK then. Although they don't hand down death sentences, they do leave parents without their children. These courts don't even have to make up the parents' confessions - simply being accused is enough to be guilty.

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Anonymous Coward

"It seems that oil is worth more than human life"

So it would seem. How many people would die of starvation and the civil disorder which would ensue if middle eastern oil were stopped from flowing?

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Anonymous Coward

Strangled with a modem cable ??

Even if, what the hell has this to make with IT, please ?

And to you hypocrites who ask about diplomatic and business relationship, I'll wait for your whining when your lower back-ends start freezing next winter.

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Silver badge

Posting logic ?

if (author=="Lester Haines" && im_a_predictable_whinging_saddo)

post_message ("What's this got to do with IT? blah blah");

There.. THERE'S YOUR IT ANGLE!

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It's not IT but.......

.....it is something which nees as much exposure as possible and as always, the simple answer is that if you're only interested in IT based articles, don't read those which obviously aren't about IT.....such as those with a headline about the execution of a teenager.

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Ah well ...

"I'll wait for your whining when your lower back-ends start freezing next winter."

Mine froze last winter due to unemployment. The way things are, it might well do so again this year.

But, your comment just exemplifies my comment, that the western governments are more concerned about oil than human life.

Still, you have my sympathies, anyone who can watch a young girl being beheaded for the sake of their personal comfort deserves to remain anonymous.

I feel sorry for you.

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Saudi oil

The people who think the Saudis have got us over the metaphorical barrel are living in a different age.

Saudi Arabia is a country teetering on the edge of total economic collapse, living standards are in freefall, average income per capita is heading south, the number of extremely poor people continues to climb, unemployment is rampant and basic services are heading south. The vast majority of government spending goes on subsidies and servicing the ballooning national debt. The end-of-party fight has only been staved off temporarily by high oil prices.

In short, the country is a basketcase and even its oil reserves might be wildly overstated (the Saudis refuse to allow any external assessment of its oil fields). It's now quite widely believed that Saudi Arabia's largely fields are both overworked, damaged and in long-term decline. There have been no large discoveries in recent years and its hard to see how current figures of 9 million bpd can be maintained let alone expanded as the Saudis keep promising.

With oil making up something like 70% of Saudi income the ruling kleptocracy needs Western help - economic, technical and military if the party is to continue for any time. Our assistance should come with slightly less fawning and a lot more demands for Saudi Arabia to get out of the 16th Century and join the modern era. So far the Saudis have been very good at playing one Western power off against the other, perhaps its time for some joint thinking to restore some balance to the relationship.

Oh but what about the oil?

Its worth recalling that the 1973 OPEC boycott of the West did far more damage to the OPEC economies than those of the West. The majority of oil exporters rely on petroleum for the bulk of their incomes, when they turn off the taps their own people suffer badly - and quickly. If Saudi slows production its own economy would implode - and the playboys at the top would quickly find out what Wahabi justice is really like.

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Anonymous Coward

Stand up to the Arabs?

Stand up to the Arabs? WTF?!

This is so annoying when someone believes that everyone should live like them. WHY? Who gave you the right to impose your “loving and caring” believes on others? I am not a Arab, and I will never visit the UAE because I do not want my hand amputated if my credit card declines in a restaurant, but this does not mean that I feel badly about their “regime” if the Arab society wants to have these laws, let them, it is -their country- let them do in -their country- what they want.

""She concluded: "Should we just think of and preserve the rights of the murderer and not think of the rights of others?"""

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IT connection

Isn't it obvious what the IT angle is? If only the Saudi's had an integrated management system based on MRP-II type business software to handle all of these "criminals".

But no, back office shenanigans! And they think they can compete in the world of underhanded execution of possible innocents.

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Yes, stand up to the Arabs.

By your reasoning if Hitler had confined his genocide to within Germany everything would be okay would it? The things we're talking about are basic human rights, and a vast swathe of loving and caring people think they should be extended to every human being on the planet. Personally I believe that a confession made in 'private' is not evidence of anything. That's here, the UAE or the US. She might be guilty, we don't know, but if she hasn't had a fair trial then it is not okay to execute her, doubly so if you've already agreed not to execute people for crimes committed as a child.

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Think it through ...

... Steve Browne, I might say.

Hypocrazy defies what you understood. Those who protest fervently (and so do I) against this illegal, inhuman and horrifying execution of a teen. And come winter, start whining about the cold, and - if needed - support Brown at sending more troops to "free more subdued citizens" from dictators.

Who, incidentally, all dispose of plenty of oil richesses and as of then don't make it friendly with the west.

I for one, am prepared to walk or take my push-bike to where I need to go.

You may still feel sorry for me, then.

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Anonymous Coward

Broaden your horizons

What does Hitler has to do with anything?

We are talking about law and traditions of a sovereign state, not about mass genocide.

“basic human rights” have gone too far, crimes require punishment, and heinous crimes require capital punishment. But this is all beside the point.

My point is rather simple, if you believe that a person needs a longwinded trial at huge expense to the tax payer, with unpredictable outcome – because, of, say, incorrectly filed court papers, or a signature in the wrong place, go for it! The Arabs are not going to send troops to liberate your court system. You are entitled to your way of life, in your country, it is your country, do with it as you please. If the majority of the population believes that 16 year old girls arrested for drugs smuggling are innocent, -release them, and kiss them in the ..... It is your country, it is your right. The less “loving and caring” countries will laugh their.... off, but no one will send troops to “put right the wrong”

In short, UAE is living in a 14th century, that is the way they like it, and that is the way it must be. Under Sadam there were no sectarian violence, there was no terrorism of any kind – because, the people need a ruler with an iron fist. You do not understand it, because here, in the UK everybody is peaceful and polite, you are not inherently violent, but, you make the huge mistake of assuming that everybody else should be the same way. They are not, nor should they be. This is what makes everybody unique. In some African tribes, fathers rape their daughters before they reach puberty. Bad? – yep, would I do it? – nope. Do I want to make them stop – nope --- this is the way they done it for centuries, who are we to tell them that this is wrong?

To summarise, you have your own mentality, other people have their own mentality. Each one believes he is absolutely right, and the other guy is a .... for thinking otherwise. But if you stop for a minute, and think, that if you would grow up in your “opponents” country, faced with the realities of that life, you would be the same way? Broaden your horizons, and do not impose your beliefs on others – you do not have that right! If your opponent would have a better military capability, would you want them to topple your government, install a puppet governor, and instigate Islamic law?

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Blind ? Illiterate ? Stupid ?

Then randomly click on an el Reg link and post a stupid comment about there being no IT angle.

I mean honestly, which part of "Saudis to execute Sri Lankan teen" did you misinterpret ?

If she wears an iPod during the beheading, does this become more relevant to you ?

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doh

and I so wanted to say "in before - what's the it angle" legitmately *sigh* maybe next time.

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Anonymous Coward

All things being equal.... they aren't.

Quote:

This is so annoying when someone believes that everyone should live like them. WHY? Who gave you the right to impose your “loving and caring” believes on others? I am not a Arab, and I will never visit the UAE because I do not want my hand amputated if my credit card declines in a restaurant, but this does not mean that I feel badly about their “regime” if the Arab society wants to have these laws, let them, it is -their country- let them do in -their country- what they want.

Reply:

Not all beliefs and societies are worth tolerating. Not all ideas were created equal, not all laws, not all societies. If a society uniformly commits things that I believe are atrocities, aren't I morally bankrupt to look the other way? I'm not a racist or prejudiced against any group, but when people start executing in the name of their precious culture, it does indeed offend my basic human sensibilities.

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@Anonymous Coward

"here, in the UK everybody is peaceful and polite, you are not inherently violent"

Excuse me while I rupture myself from laughing so hard. In the last week, trains running through my town have been canceleld multiple times because the local 'children' have taken to piling stuff on the track to halt the train, then pitching rocks through the windows. Peaceful and polite my ass.

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Anonymous Coward

'children'

This is another argument for another day, and (hopefully) not on IT site, however, the ‘children’ to whom you refer are most likely first/second generation immigrants from uninvolved, and uneducated countries who are incapable of learning and holding a decent job, and are taking out their “small penis” complexes on the society. We see this in France as well.

It is another poke in the “loving & caring” direction – if you would not scream publically “let’s let in all the poor people after a ‘job’ cause they are so lovely” then you would not be in this predicament.

English children, affected by the general inability of the immigrant children to learn and integrate start acting out as well, is this the direction that you want your country to take?

And in reply to “If a society uniformly commits things that I believe are atrocities, aren't I morally bankrupt to look the other way?”

Once again, with the “that I believe are atrocities” operative expression “you believe” – I believe that you should punish children who misbehave, but I am not going to go round my neighbours house and beat up his children, even though I am stronger and bigger than my neighbour.

if your society finds something atrocious, then do not do it. Most societies find homosexual marriage atrocious, and morally wrong , and yet they do not scream at UK for implementing the laws supporting this.

Do you really not see the point, that if your neighbour has a cat, and dislikes dogs, but you have a dog and dislike cats, neither you nor him are right or wrong. And if the neighbour decides to cook his cat, it is his bloody business!

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Its all too simple to say keep out of it!

Well, were not 100 miles removed from the Saudi's, but thankfully, general common sense prevails and so should human rights. If I got a pound for every person incarcerated under false evidence in this world I wouldn’t need to work at all. Fact: she should have rights and a lawyer, guilty or not. Fact: If an African tribe wants to rape their daughters (child), if we can, we should give her assistance to stop such practise, even if the daughter can say..yes or no. Saying its ok to carry on is such practise is just plain backward thinking.

Darfur has no oil but were need to do and are trying to do something there. So it's not hands off if its the Saudi's, freezing pants or not. So Pleaseeeee don't say its' not of our business, every human life is important. We can't save everyone, but lets try and make a difference to injustices in all forms.

If IT people are meant to be some of the most intelligent out there, then lets get a bit of common sense into this. If ones wrong you can't just “reboot” and up she comes!.

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Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship and that is the perfered form of government for other countries

A nice stable dictatorship.

We can buy off a few members of the hereditary dictator's family, and so long as that family is in power, we know where we stand.

So we continue to prop them up. And we continue to seek out new dictators to prop up.

And we are supposedly bewildered why the people in these other countries come to hate us.

As for the IT angle, IT companies do business with these dictatorships, and IT companies support our governments in propping these dictatorships up.

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to poster of comment 'children'

1.

You make many unsubstantiated generalisations in your post.

From where does your evidence come that "are most likely first/second generation immigrants from uninvolved, and uneducated countries who are incapable of learning and holding a decent job, and are taking out their “small penis” complexes on the society." is true?

2.

"Once again, with the “that I believe are atrocities” operative expression “you believe” – I believe that you should punish children who misbehave, but I am not going to go round my neighbours house and beat up his children, even though I am stronger and bigger than my neighbour."

The person to whom you are responding wasn't advocating beating anyone up, s/he is probably content to leave that up to fascistic idiots like you and the saudis.

3.

"Most societies find homosexual marriage atrocious, and morally wrong , and yet they do not scream at UK for implementing the laws supporting this."

Do you live in a cave? No, wait, I mean, I just want to ask, seriously, do you live in a cave? It seems likely from the tone of your post, and the fact that you seem to have failed to notice the rage directed towards the 'decadent west' by (mainly) islamic extremists. There are plenty of people out there screaming.

4.

"And if the neighbour decides to cook his cat, it is his bloody business!"

But this is a very young human, not a cat, a person who is far from home, and probably very scared and alone. And she is not 'their human(cat)', unless you wnat to go a little step further, and say that slavery is just fine.

5.

I just wasted 5 minutes of my life writing something that you'll probably never read, and would fail to understand or be capable of accepting anyway. But you're a fscking idiot and have to be you, which sucks.

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Anonymous Coward

Dear Anon: UAE and Saudi Arabia are actually two different countries

Other than that, I agree This "basic human rights" crap is really going too far, so let's decapitate some random 17 y/o to make this world a better place... Hurrah!

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Anonymous Coward

Timothy Slade

@Timothy Slade

1. From my general day-to-day observations, talking “off the record” to a police officer, and observing the body language of the “children” on the high street.

2. The person to whom I was responding was advocating “standing up to the Arabs” which, basically means regime change, using military force.

3. I do not live in the cage, I live in north London, and I do see the Islamic rage and screams. They, however, do not have the power to invade other societies

4. With the current way people grow up, 17 is no longer a “very young person” – they tend to be adult enough to smuggle drugs, commit crimes, etc etc

and the cat analogy was not based on this “girl” it is a generalisation of why groups of people should not interfere in the way of life of other groups.

5. I have wasted considerably more time with the multiple posts that I done here, in the vain attempt to get at least one person to pause and think, that maybe, just maybe, the attitude of “let’s get the whole world watching east enders cause they are just nice people, and they will become just like we if only they had a telly”

P.S. to reiterate, I am not an Arab, I am not Islamist, I am European, living in England, and having a unique position of loving this country, and yet seeing all that is wrong (uncontrolled immigration, eroding social values, and softness! Too much bloody softness!!!

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Goose/Gander

First of all, I do not condemn rape, murder, etc... I just *know* someone is going to go off the rails and present a knee-jerk argument...

BUT...

It's funny how most of the people who advocate releasing the teenager do so because "what they are doing in their country is wrong and I find it offensive and we should step in and stop it."

Reeaaaalllly????

So if (say) a muslim country decides that by letting women walk around bare-headed we are promoting a wanton society and they should step in and stop us... would we say "what a good idea" and let them? No, we would call them terrorists, war-mongerers, etc...

The way to change a country is NOT to get on your high horse at the slightest thing that offends your delicacies... this will not help (see Iraq), it will just make a lot of people pissed-off at you. Like all social changes, this is something that has to be done quietly, level-headedly and (unfortunately for the poor teen) over a period of time.

The only time radicaly change was implemented in a short perios of time has *always* been via uprising from *within* the country itself... anyone who tries to affect change from without has not learnt from history.

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Anonymous Coward

Aubry Thonon

I can go to bed now, at peace with myself, knowing that there is at least one other person that agrees with me...

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IT Connection...

...is obvious. The execution will be videoed and posted on the Internet, as is the norm.

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G

Broaden your horizons!!!??

Makes me sick! Its very easy to say when the person being beheaded isnt you or your mother or your sister or someone YOU love.

Its a HUMAN LIFE that will be taken under dubious circumstances. Maybe that doesnt mean anything to you

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Anonymous Coward

This is the typical case when the us/uk alliance...

should go in and liberate the people, even other nato countries and the un would join them. The problem is that the usa can get it's oil from there without war and us diplomacy always prefers and supports friendly dictatorships and terrorists until they turn against them (for example saddam hussein and bin laden). If they would try to kill an american citizen, the usa would be bombing them by now. Establishing a un sanction against them would be good, correct and would get voted by everyone but the us, because nobody else buys oil from the saudis. The problem as usual is the usa government's preference for dictatorships because they know that a truely democratic country would not support them.

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@anon

Hmm. I think we're beginning to see Anonymous Idiot's true colours here...

"...the ‘children’ to whom you refer are most likely first/second generation immigrants from uninvolved, and uneducated countries who are incapable of learning and holding a decent job, and are taking out their “small penis” complexes on the society..."

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not, by the way) but Steve did specify "local" children. I can't see _any_ evidence in his post to back up your ass-umptions.

"English children, affected by the general inability of the immigrant children to learn and integrate start acting out as well..."

I don't think we can entirely blame the wilfulness and misbehaviour of children on influences from the foreign devils, you know. Children have been naughty throughout history. "...the whining school-boy, with his satchel // And shining morning face, creeping like snail // Unwillingly to school." is as familiar a childhood archetype now as it was in Shakespeare's time.

The reason might well lie in your later comment: "I believe that you should punish children who misbehave, but I am not going to go round my neighbours house and beat up his children..." - Well, I'm sure that's a relief all round, but I do remember my own childhood (only thirty-odd years ago) when it wouldn't have been commented on for a passing adult to administer a corrective clip around a misbehaving scamp's ear. I'm sure we all know what the likely result would be these days, and that's probably a pity. There's a difference between the ear-clip and beating a child up, though, and it's obviously important for the child to understand the reason for any punishment they're given.

"Most societies find homosexual marriage atrocious, and morally wrong.."

Yes, well that's just part of the rich tapestry of life, isn't it? Some people are enlightened, and others are idiots. Discuss.

"...And if the neighbour decides to cook his cat, it is his bloody business!" Well, no. It isn't. It's illegal, and I'd be well within my rights to report him to the police, as I certainly would.

Anyway, I don't think the major outrage is about the death sentance per se*; Saudi Arabia is hardly unique in using this ultimate sanction, although they do seem uniquely enthusiastic about putting on the old black hat. As I understand it, the problem is more that the girl who's about to be cold-blood-murdered has not had what we would consider to be a fair trial, and in any case was too young to be punished in this way _even if she were guilty_ (which there seems to be scant evidence for in any case.)

Call me a hand-wringing pinko leftist liberal, but that seems wrong to me.

* Okay, I don't agree with the death sentance either, but you picks yer fights, innit?

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This post has been deleted by its author

Death Sentence

Okay, I know I mis-spelt "sentence" earlier. I thought I was being clever, in a "practice/practise" way, and it turns out I was just being wrong. Figured I'd get my own correction in before Mr Anon used it as an excuse to reject my arguments...

Of course, he could always just ignore them instead...

Oh, and Allan: I understand the official tally was 15 Saudis. But I'm sure they were an unrepresentative sample.

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Anonymous Coward

You're having a bubble mate

"here, in the UK everybody is peaceful and polite, you are not inherently violent"

Do you know nothing of British history? We had an Empire for Gawd's sake. We didn't get it by being polite and asking nicely. These islands are home to probably the most violent and aggressive populations on Planet Earth. Grrrr!!! We have the most evolved legal and governmental systems on the planet because they were necessary to stop us killing each other in vast numbers.

Saudi Arabia and most of the other Middle Eastern countries are still at the stage of killing each other in vast numbers and consequently they are, quite frankly, inhuman, abominable places to live. If they can't evolve into a humane society of their own volition then, unfortunately, we'll just have to point them in the right direction by gentle persuasion and if that doesn't work by invading and beating sense into them.

You can argue it's none of our business but that's clearly not the case because the barbarians are knocking at our gates and we just have to show them our answer to hospitality and it doesn't involve tea and cucumber sandwiches despite appearances to the contrary.

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You utter tosser

"This is another argument for another day, and (hopefully) not on IT site, however, the ‘children’ to whom you refer are most likely first/second generation immigrants from uninvolved, and uneducated countries"

No they aren't, they are home grown hooligans, thank you very much. And you are a wanker of the first order. Pathetic small minded deluded bigot, so you are.

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