They'll not be getting my eyeball details, I tell ye.
One in three people will resist identity checks according to Government figures. The just-released statistics predict a widespread revolt over identity cards, but the Home Office has dismissed the figures as irrelevant and out of date. In 2004 Mark Oaten, the then Liberal Democrat spokesman on home affairs, asked for figures to …
They'll not be getting my eyeball details, I tell ye.
What a coincidence, headlines today "Identity Theft up 70%!!!"
'One in three people will resist identity checks according to Government figures. The just-released statistics predict a widespread revolt over identity cards, but the Home Office has dismissed the figures as irrelevant and out of date.'
So are the new numbers [all together now]...
...higher, or lower
I expect the number who will 'resist' is now closer to 50% as more details of just how intrusive these ID cards are is revealed.
The governments other problem is the demographic of the 'resistors'. I'm guessing the bulk of them are from more enlightened and better educated sector of the population. Or, to put it another way, those 30% probably contribute substantially more than 30% of the Chancellor's tax income.
Even if true this is not enough!
Are we a nation of sheep?
This is just another facet of the governments desire for a complete monitoring solution for the UK populace.
NPR cameras, face recognition software hooked up to CCTV streams, zoom microphones and speakers attached to CCTV's on street corners, RFID embedded in the number plates of cars. DNA sampling and databasing if arrested and proven innocent. Finger printing of children.
A short period of time after of ID cards are in normal use, the voluntary aspect to carrying them will be replaced by a law that insists they be carried at all times. I wouldn't be surprised if there are plans for GPS tracking of ID cards.
This government are smart enough to know that they must do this by degrees. All this tracking and monitoring of the UK population has slowly come to be over the past ten years. I would expect that there would be uproar, even from sheep, if these measures where implemented all at once.
It would be wise not to see these infringements of our civil liberties as an end all solution to crime, fraud and terrorism. But as the beginnings of something much more insidious.
It seems that George Orwell was something of a prophet after all.
It would also seem that resistance is futile.
Only 30%, I think that's arather on the low side now, and as for 60% volunteering to carry the card without any compulsion, well that's just fantasy !
The British aversion to ID cards. Carrying ID is compulsory in many European countries, and I personally see no problem in doing it. Not carrying the ID requires you to turn up at your local police station within... 48hrs? to prove you are who you say, and live where you say you do.
Everyone with a driver's license is carrying ID with them as it is.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a non-topic, and the UK should get in line with the rest of the world. This isn't Big Brother trying to watch your every move, this is a simple attempt to stop criminals from taking advantage of people may not take all precautions to protect their own identity.
the hideously over arching NIR database which sits behind the ID card database, not to mention the threat of £2000 fines if you do not update the information on the database due to any trivial change in your life( new hair colour, new glasses, new hair cut etc etc).
also there is the rediculous fact that should one of the offshote data entry firms enter your data wrong, the only and I mean ONLY person who can authorise a change in that data is the Home Secretary.
The ID Card system/NIR database in the form the government wishes to introduce it is a draconian orwellian nightmare waiting to happen.
Anyone seen the video for Land of Confusion by Disturbed? Thats what I would like to see if they do press on with this >:o)
I would have no problem *whatsoever* with a standalone ID card which contained my photo and my thumbprint, but nothing else. This is I understand what they have in Spain.
yes I am one of the people who will resist, they will not take my biometrics and if it means leaving the country that I was born in and love then so be it.
iirc It's also legal to drink drive in Dakota US. Perhaps we should adopt that standard too. The reasoning of "because they do it" is never a valid argument.
I will never carry an ID card, I never carry my driving licence. I carry a chip and pin debit card and that's it.
For those happy to be tagged an monitored:
Don't diverge, don't deviate, don't set yourself apart, fear the worse, keep your head down and stick to your bit part.
Because failure to adhere to rules and regulations no matter how ridiculous will result in them handing you your ass.
Are the terms conform, consume, comply, obey appealing to anyone?
I fear you maybe a little naive JP, although I accept the possbility that you are right and over 40 years of living in this country and 10 years under a psychopathic leadership has made me suspicious, paranoid and cynical.
btw I am an honest law abiding citizen with nothing to hide, but this doesn't mean I want my life to be an open book to data entry clerks, who may or may not want to sell my details to the highest bidder. What happens when these government databases are compromised, or an MP "losses" his laptop allowing "the mob" to make ID cards for any UK citizen at will?
Am I paraniod? Please advise.
"Not carrying the ID requires you to turn up at your local police station within... 48hrs? to prove you are who you say, and live where you say you do."
And why should I wish to do this if I'm not engaged in criminal activity?
And if I am a criminal do you honestly think I'd turn up?
On top of that the ID card scheme in the UK is a thinly veiled cover for the National Identity Register, roadside checks on identity, use of biometrics in schools, recording of all car journeys as a matter of course, and so on and so forth (see http://www.no2id.net/ for further details).
Anyway - I'll give the police the right to go fishing in my private life when they give me the opportunity to do the same with them. I expect there'll be much more for me to find than for them: Various police forces have been indicted for falsifying evidence, lying in court, convicting the wrong people and trying to hide it after the fact &c.
I'm sure Stanley Milgram would have been absolutely delighted to see so many people following the fourth and final command of his famous Obedience to Authority experiment (cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedience_to_authority):
"You have no other choice, you /must/ go on."
I think not.
What is the difference, in practical terms, between (1) having to carry an identity card in the street at all times and (2) being in prison?
The thing which nobody has pointed out yet is that we don't trust our police. With good reason, since the police are people too.
The man arrested as the Ipswich serial killer was a special constable. If you have nothing to hide from the police then you had nothing to hide from him. I do have things to hide from serial killers so I will resist the ID card.
>> What is the difference, in practical terms, between
>> (1) having to carry an identity card in the street at all times and
>> (2) being in prison?
you get free food, lodgings and plenty of support programs in prison.
I'll personally demand to be arrested when the time comes, I want to see the look on their faces when I have to point out that my society has turned my freedom into a crime.
Freedom or death anyone?
As long as it gets me thru airports in about 15 minutes like before..
Fingerprints, iris scans, DNA match-ups, biometrics?? O.K.!!
Just make it practical.
I've nothing to hide..
JP: "Everyone with a driver's license is carrying ID with them as it is."
Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't a drivers license just a permit to errrr, drive a car/bike/truck? It has little relecance outside of this activity, although it is handy as general ID - if YOU chose to show it.
The question is, do we need an "existence license"? I think not.
Even if only 5% of people refused the ID card, that is more than enough to cover all the illegals, crooks, fraudsters and nasty types. Without 100% compliance, the ID scheme is just a waste of taxpayers money. Its just another way for bad Governments to scare us into submission.
but only my middle one
It appears that the true reason of not wanting ID is not that people have a fear of getting caught doing something they shouldn't be, it's the sheer lack of confidence in the abilities of the government and law enforcement agencies to keep a hold on the information, and to use it responsibly.
Which is a very sad reflection on the state of our society.
I think the scenario of using IDs to follow your EVERY move is a bit far fetched (for now). The ID I'm talking about is like the ones in Europe, which have a pic, basic details, and fingerprint, not the all-encompassing ID/life-in-a-chip that appears to be the insistence of the government.
What's stupid about the whole scheme is:
1) It's voluntary
2) It'll cost the participants.
Who will VOLUNTARILY PAY for something they DON'T NEED that will actually make them more vulnerable?
At this point, it's all academic.
So basically, we're going to have to have a compulsory card with a chip holding all the info we have around us already.
And do they really think this is going to stop criminals. How easy is it to get a forged passport. Is is really going to be much of a step to making forged ID cards?
And, they get every little piece of information about you and store it on a massive database. right...
How many times have these government databases been completely open to crackers and other criminals?
And what's to say they won't sell on your data. Look at what the DVLA is doing. They will reveal *ever* little piece of data from your drivers licence to anyone who can pay the administration charge of £2.50
I'm also quite happy to provide a scan of my finger.
Can we count to binary four on our hands? >:D
Or binary six?
You can always fall back on; "if you haven't got anything to hide..."
And then make the 'natural' and 'obvious' connection that indeed anyone without an ID card is either a) a terrorist or b) a pedophile