Hollywood giant James Cameron has set himself his biggest challenge yet – rewriting the bible after discovering that Jesus sired a son before being buried outside Jerusalem. Cameron claims to have found the, now empty, tomb of one Jesua, son of Joseph. The sepulchre also apparently contained the bodies of Mary. As well as …
Wow, I didn't realised they could get people's names from their DNA. That's impressive.
I think it's the fourth to twentieth complementary pairs on the Divine Gene that gives it away.
As a Christian I will pray for James Cameron as deception is one of the strongest motivators in the world. Just because "today's" science says it does not mean it is true. There is nothing in scripture about this subject. In fact, scripture suggest that to not be married is best. I am married and in no way claim to have all the answers. But I believe we should weigh all we see & read in light of the scriptures.
Please be careful watching this. Jesus said Himself that people would call the truth a lie and a lie the truth.
Thanks & God Bless!!!
I'm by no means a christian, I did have a christian upbringing.
So while I don't care all that much if Jesus did or didn't do this or that, its clearly stated he didn't start his 'ministry' until he was 32. In biblical terms that leaves 20 years of his life undocumented.
So why not raise a family? It would be the normal Jewish thing to do.
Happy to be a skeptic, but lets use data that isn't flawed to prove our points!
I think it's important at this time that we all keep an open mind. If it is true what does that mean to you? That he was not sent hear by God? No. I was raised a Catholic, but to my mothers disappointment I do not follow. That does not change the fact that I believe in God, and in Jesus. The truth is the truth. We should never fear that. If this does prove that he was MAN, it does not change the fact that he was God's messenger. He changed the world forever. Please try to remember that. The bible has changed hands so many times. It's impossible for me to believe that things have not been left out , changed, or even made up. Again, keep an open mind, and an open heart.
We have Gods DNA?
So if I understand this correctly we now have the DNA of not only Gods son Jesus (and any putative grandchildren) but also that of his father god himself?
Well that brings me to the interesting claims of one Green peace leader over his true linage!
Would the son of god please step up to the bar for a swab;-)
All you bible thumpers need to get a life. Nobody ever rose from the dead. Dead is dead. End of story. Stop believing BS stories in the bible.
Oh, and before telling others what to do and how to feel, learn how to spell and speak (write) correctly. You look like idiots with your poor grammar. Example: Melissa wrote: "That he was not sent hear by God?" It's "HERE" not "HEAR"! You "hear" with your ears!!!
I just want to know how the sex was for Jesus' wife. I mean, he does have the God Rod and all......
This ruins everything
Now they've found the remains, I guess that means Easter will be canceled. And I had plans for the holiday.
DNA tests to confirm his identity ?
What /who did they use to compare the sample with ?
Eric Clapton ?
Steve Jobs ?
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
PS: Agree with you Melissa Dellabate. One day we all shall know the Truth, either during our life on this earth or beyond this life. The truth shall be revealed of who we are... Thanks for you comments.
The truth is
You cannot believe everything you read or watch, even the scriptures and James Cameron excepting of course El Reg!
...to see those of faith leaping too quickly to the defence of their creed - on the merest mention of some kind of evidence of something perhaps relating to that creed.
"...call the truth a lie and a lie the truth...", "Keep an open heart". Hmmm. Any fact may be right or may be wrong - emotional attachment to facts is a worry.
All facts have one thing in common though. Facts are, and always should be regarded as, dull. If a fact isn't dull to you then you've not found an interesting fact :- you've just found out you've got an emotional agenda, a vested interest, a political alignment, a dogma, a cunning plan. Now that IS interesting - as indeed all ideas are.
Remember - the biased, fiery, dogma within your skull and the cool, neutral truths of the world outside it are detached and truly unrelated to each other. To believe otherwise is deluded.
Will the real Mary please stand up?
It's even more difficult for catholics than for the rest of us, since they apparently believe that Mary went up into heaven as well. That's two bodies too many.
Except, I wonder how many people there were with those names in first century Jerusalem. Wouldn't it be embarrassing if Cameron had found the WRONG grave?
And for goodness sake, what is the DNA supposed to prove?
Pretty unlikely on many grounds
Why would Jesus' family have a tomb in or near Jerusalem? They had no ties to the area, and Jesus died in poverty and disgrace (which, theologically, is kind of the point...). If his body was still around (which depends on whether you think the resurrection was physical, metaphorical, or a fraud) it would be buried in Nazareth, not Jerusalem. So would the bodies of the rest of his family, who had even less reason to be buried in Jerusalem.
Second, remember that biblical fakes are practically an industry in the Middle East, and have been for hundreds of years. Just last year, a box that was supposedly an ossuary related to Jesus was "discovered", but it turned out to be an ancient box with a modern inscription added with meticulous care and one subtle mistake.
So lets wait for the science to be in before jumping to the conslusions...
Know your history
Something people do quite a bit when they do not have all of the facts is create an assumption instead of searching for the truth. Please understand Jesus was a Jewish rabbi who lived just as any other Jew would at that time. It amazes me how many people speak in contradiction to the Bible even though they have never bothered to read and understand it.
In regards to "Yes but..." what Jesus Christ did between the age of thirteen and thirty is found in Jewish history. From what I understand, it was customary for a Jewish male who was found to be gifted in scriptural understanding to go on to study for the next fifteen or so years of his life, and then go on to become a rabbi. In response to "The Truth", I do believe you have just insulted most every Jew on the planet. To say that the Bible is not historically accurate is to say that all historical records of antiquity are also inaccurate. The Jewish scribes (e.g. Talmudists, Maseorites, etc.), who's single job was to transcribe scrolls, were held to very specific standards while performing their job.
Last of all, let's not forget that Christianity is FAITH based. It is up to each of us to choose what we believe and what we do not believe.
i have already seen the bible bashers on an american site getting ready to spit roast mr cameron for this.
hopefully we can finally put the bible back into the fiction category, use our brains and live life for the good of humanity rather than kneeling at the feet of oppressive religions and crazy leaders.
im so surprised in this day and age that there are pseudo intelligent religious types who believe the bible and all the rubbish in it. do you even know how many bits have been modified, edited out and just rewritten for the 'good' of christianity. lots of stupid, scared men trying to control the world - we dont need it - we have george W for that! :(
organised religion is just a scary thing in this day and age! im intelligent enough to not covert my neighbours oxen (even tho its all kinds of sexy :))
maybe they'll find the hidden scripture...
You know, the one that says, "I was just kidding about that love one another and have compassion stuff. I really do hate gay people."
OK, but remember....
"One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord"
Re: im scared
AMEN! OOPS! Did I just say something religious? ;)
Liam, you hit the nail right on the head... and it's very scary, confusing, and aggravating to me that so many people wish to continue to live a life with their head in the sand...
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
Re: Know Your History
"To say that the Bible is not historically accurate is to say that all historical records of antiquity are also inaccurate"
Who was it that said "History is written by the winners" ?
All history texts are subjective, from the view of the author.
"Last of all, let's not forget that Christianity is FAITH based. It is up to each of us to choose what we believe and what we do not believe."
Re: OK, but remember....
Uh... no. Get a life... loser.
Do you actually think that the Lord, as pure as he was, would have his remains left behind in this sinful world.
If your answer is yes, then maybe the end is nearer then we realize and it is a last desperate attempt on the Lord's part to get through to some ignorant individuals.
However, I do believe the Bible. He who tampers with the Bible will pay, according to our Lord.
God Save Us!
Something to think about
If this is Jesus that means he has returned witch is one of the thing supposed to happen at the end times.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a bad story
Why work so hard to debunk something he doesn't believe to begin with? My perspective is a bit unusual - as a Christian pastor and a molecular biologist. All the DNA profiling proves is that the ossuaries contained remains from related individuals. Fact is these names (if they are transcribed correctly - a big if), are incredibly common first century names. No archaeologist in Israel appears to believe that this casket held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth.
But there again, why let the facts get in the way of a bad story?
Yeah, but no, but yeah...
OK, but remember.... wrote: "One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord"
Sounds a bit creepy to me! I aint licking no ancient bones!
Please Mr Cameron, just don't cast Leonardo DeCaprio as Jesus.
What a Load
This is just another ploy to make money off of the easily convinced "skeptics." Just like "the passion" was a way to make money off the easily convinced "Christians." Might as well call this new documentary The Da Vinci Code 2. Religion is a hot selling item right now whether it is pro or anti Christianity. I try to ignore media bull like this entirely. Tired of people making money off of this stuff. Everyone needs to open their eye and realize the real reason these programs are being produced ($$$$$). Religion is something you find within yourself not a TV program or a book. Whatever a person believes in is their choice and no one elses.
So What ?
Once its aired the Christian movement will bring its media arm into play and a dozen debunking programs will be produced, each graded to appeal to the myriad types of believers.
And when the dust settles it will be business as usual, people will believe in some sort of god or not. Regardless of whether it is Christian, Islamic, Zionist etc. no minds will be changed and a significant proportion of the worlds population will continue to believe their own version of a fairytale.
I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who had faith and this documentary wont change a thing, regardless of any 'truth' it may contain.
I can hardly wait...
...to see what he says happened. Given the historical "accuracy" of _Titanic_, and his belief that he alone knew what really happened, I can't wait for _The Gospel According to James Cameron_.
Seriously, when did he go from competent action director to raving nutbag?
A few things
1) The usage of DNA is testing to see if the bodies found in the tombs are related to each other, husband, wife, child. DNA is not being used to determine identity.
2) Given the fact that it was not until the Council of Nicea in 390(?) AD, that it was decided by the powers-that-be within the church that
a - Jesus was the only son of Mary and Joseph, casting his 3 brothers and 2 sisters forever into obscurity
b - "Immaculate Conception" was unknown until 390 years AFTER the fact.
c - Mary became the "Virgin Eternal", signifying that Mary did not have any more children after Jesus (contrary to all evidence otherwise), and placing a barrier between Jesus and his own blood brother Judas, yes, THAT Judas.
3) The Bible (New Testament) was written over a period of approximately 500 years, thus relegating "eye-witness facts" to the realm of "hearsay". Read the various passages to do with the Ressurection. Why do none of them agree on exactly what happened, and who was there when it supposedly did?
Mumbo-Jumbo BS about "God working in mysterious ways" is just a lame cop-out.
I fervently hope that the editors at El Reg are selecting only the more virulent comments to post, or that only the most myopic people are generally deciding to post.
The irony is that both 'sides' of this pointless flamewar agree implicitly on one thing: They've both created the same imaginary fence, just so they can sit on opposite sides of it and throw rotten fruit at one another.
It's really kind of embarassing.
(Oh, and lest I fail to make the cut for this discussion: Those who disagree with me are fundamentalists or heathen, depending; want to tell me how to think; are totally and obviously wrong; and will either die and rot, or burn in hell, depending. Also, they have bad grammar and are poopy-heads. Pllbbbbth.)
Wow Ian I think you just convinced me to be an atheist. Do you really think that anything you say on here is going to change a persons faith. Everyone should just quit wasting their breath on this. Its almost a joke to see how self righteous some atheists and christians are. To me they are both in the same boat. Funny how people claim ideas and so passionately believe them like they were thier own, when in fact no one knows what is going on.
Step right up!
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RE: Ian Damage
The council of Nicea was convened in about 325 AD mainly to resolve conflicts about whether Jesus was part of the God-head (trinity) or merely a creation of God. The overwhelming majority of Bishops in attendance (300+ vs. 2 or 3) decided that Jesus was one with God (they decided so because it's what the original apostles used to teach). The creed that was adopted at this council doesn't even mention the virgin birth (that didn't happen until the council of Constantinople and it only declares that Mary was a virgin when she became pregnant with Jesus.). Furthermore, Mary's virgin conception of Jesus was known before the Nicene creed - it was written in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.
Besides, the Bible says that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
All of the Gospels were written less than 70 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. They differ slightly because they are the written from separate points of view.
Finally, Judas Iscariot was not Jesus's brother, otherwise he would have been identified Judas of Nazareth as this was Jesus's family's hometown (hence Jesus of Nazareth or the Nazarene). Also, Judas was a very common name at that time, thus the Judas identified as Jesus's brother would have been a different Judas (the disciples identified as Thomas and Jude were also named Judas, btw). Ultimately, however, it doesn't matter. Supposing that Judas Iscariot was Jesus's brother or cousin, what would it change? I would say it changes absolutely nothing. To focus on that would be to entirely miss the point of Jesus's birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection.
I would like to point out this is not the first tomb to be discovered which is attributed to Jesus and his family. Infact there about eight years ago a tomb was discovered just outside of Jerusalem of a disciple name Barsabas (Judas' replacement) and their was a coffin bearing the name of Jesus in there as well (although empty) so which, of all of these is correct.
Jesus, Joseph and Mary were among the most common names of the period. The DNA evidence could only prove the the people in the coffins were related and no more. Unless as so many have pointed out, that some one has and entire DNA database of all Israel residents of the circa first century period.
Before you point out me bad grammar like, makes me argument no less correct. I can't see how there can be proof and as usual it comes down to people's own faith.
Spiritual things are spritually descerned!
DNA technology can only apply if some DNA from Jesus was available today. Complicating bogus claims with scientific jargon simply appeals to the naive and simple minds.
It is so cheap to set out to prove something that is so complicated as spiritual matters. Jesus's claims can not be scientifically disproved/proved and as such it takes speiritually enlightened minds to configure this mysterious man.
This whole thing is all about greed and fame. The Da vinci code started off as big thing but after clear minds looked closely, it was found to be a mere money seeking venture just like this one is!
Once you meet the saviour, you will not ask any further questions because he is the truth, the light and the door
I must confess to not realising that we had already arrived at April 1st. - I am still having trouble getting out of February or, to quote a Mr Dent, Arthur Dent "I never could get the hang of Thursdays."
Since the books Blood and the Holy Grail and the DaVinci code both claim there are living relatives of Jesus surely a comparison of their DNA to the ossiaries would prove the relationship (or not). There is an outfit in the UK that traces paternal or maternal lines back to the earliest times in Europe.
Maybe I'm related to God too, I can't wait to find out.
It's quite clear what the DNA sample is needed for. Just like Steven Speilburg did with the dinosaur DNA Cameron wants to create a Jesus jungle adventure park. With our lord and saviour gene's on tap he could clone entire Jesus parades to roam around on floats entertaining the patrons with classic Jesus miracles like water into wine and loves and fishes tricks.
Or if could be something more sinister, the ultimate super soldier based on Jesus DNA. Imagine a Chuck Norris Jesus hybrid!
I'm sure the Church will want to claim usage rights over the Jesus brand however and all this will get tied up in red tape for years.
That was hilarious, a jurassic jesus themepark, i couldnt have said it better myself, although i am kind of in between on the subject, yeah they can find out if the 3 were related, but how will that prove it was jesus, mary, and the son, i would love for it to be, just to prove that he DID NOT come back from the dead, his diciples came back, killed the guards, and stole his body so that he could rest in peace, sounds more reasonable doesnt it
when I read posts like the one below I often wonder what makes one persons beliefs BS and anothers fact? On what do you base that? Very curious. And, I love people who bash others for simple everyday errors (like you have never, in your hurry to get your perfect opinion out there made a spelling error....? right)
Very interesting. Personally - I don't care if this is fact or fiction - it makes for good reading.....
(see this post for why I say these things)
Posted Monday 26th February 2007 15:50 GMT All you bible thumpers need to get a life. Nobody ever rose from the dead. Dead is dead. End of story. Stop believing BS stories in the bible.
Oh, and before telling others what to do and how to feel, learn how to spell and speak (write) correctly. You look like idiots with your poor grammar. Example: Melissa wrote: "That he was not sent hear by God?" It's "HERE" not "HEAR"! You "hear" with your ears!!! "
Never been Oppressed....
What I find to be interesting is that those who posted in an attempt to discredit or damn the Bible are those who are speaking in the most anger and contempt. It's the Christian's that seem to be the most calm, rational and educated. It's also interesting that "Liam" speaks of "organized" religion as being oppressive. "Organized Religion" is a very different thing from actual Christianity. It is very clear that God hates "religion". What an oppressive, corrupt Catholic Church of the middle ages or an equally oppressive Anglican Church of the same time did to smudge God's true Word for centuries is not in line with the true teachings of Jesus. Anyone who compares the two ideas is just uneducated in both Christian and Secular history.
In response to the many athiests spewing their hate and asserting that those who believe in the Bible are uneducated, let it be said that I am a highly educated Christian working on my Master's Degree (and not in theology). In fact, I did not turn to Jesus until after obtaining my Bachelor's of SCIENCE degree. And the funny thing is, I could easily "reason" as to why the Bible may be difficult to believe at times. But, the thing is, I have FAITH. I have no rhyme or reason for believing in the Bible other than my honest love for God and how he has worked in my life. And never, Sir Liam, have I felt oppressed by my faith is Jesus Christ. In fact, I've been freed by it...freed to live a more positive, blessed and satisfying life. Doing drugs, getting drunk and speaking lewdly did nothing but make me feel dirty and confused. Interestingly, it is those WITHOUT faith that seem most oppressed to me. Christianity, in its true form, is not oppressive. It is true that, many time, Christians have been oppressed by others outside the Faith, but never has the Faith oppressed us.
James Cameron can not shake my Faith nor can widely discredited findings from 27 years ago. My Faith has saved my marriage, helped me make better decisions and brightened my life every day. Show me an athiest who can claim that ANYTHING in their life has done that.
Finally, let me say that I think it's best, in the interest of "loving our neighbors as ourselves", that the Christians who feel compelled to respond in anger to those who are bashing Christianity take a moment to pray for those who are so unexplicably angry about the Bible (if you don't believe in it, why care if anyone else does?) and hope that they seek the Truth in their own lives one day.
It's all about faith... isn't it?
I can't understand why people can quickly believe this story but reject the biblical account of Jesus resurrection.
I mean there are only two stories right? Either the biblical story that says that Jesus was raised from the dead or the one that James Cameron is claiming, that Jesus' remains have been found, which attempts to disprove the biblical account (if you believe his claims).
At the end of the day doesn't it take faith to believe either of the two stories? What is your source of truth?
I was the one who wrote that. To answer your question, yes, I don't make stupid mistakes like that. Do I make spelling mistakes when typing quickly? SURE! But "here" and hear" are two totally different words which makes it a grammatical issue and not an everyday spelling issue. Can you tell the difference?
Why do I think I can say the bible is BS? Because it is! It's obvious! People are just too stupid and/or brainwashed to see that is complete BS. Why are people jumping to discredit this find and so willing to believe that a person, a human being, can come back FROM THE DEAD, and walk on earth again! Why is that? If anyone today claimed they knew of someone coming back from the dead several days later, you can bet your bottom dollar that this person would be immediately fitted with a straitjacket and admitted into a mental institution. So, why was it ok to state such a thing 2000 years ago? Any why do people believe it today? Same reason why we were at odds with Russia in the 80's and the same reason why we're in Iraq today... FEAR!!!!!!!
RE: The Truth
Melissa, just to comment on your post. You said, "If this does prove that he was MAN, it does not change the fact that he was God's messenger."
This isn't trying to "prove that he was a MAN." It's trying to prove that He was not raised from the dead. If THAT is true and it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt (which I think is impossible). Then it would change EVERYTHING!
The strongest claim that Christianity rests upon is that Jesus was raised from the dead and that He is seated at the right hand of God. If it can be proven that these in fact are His remains, then the truth is He was NOT raised from the dead and therefore Christianity is a farse!
Why do I say that? Because if you can't believe the part that says that He was raised from the dead then you can't believe ANY of it. It's all relative at that point.
"FEAR?" Of what? Come on man, don't leave me hangin... finish your thought.
(uh, my bad... "hanging")
...believing in God is ridiculous...
THEN isn't getting angry about someone else's faith just as silly?
I am amazed at the amount of people who extend nearly reasonable arguments (obviously intelligent humans) toward the so-called disproof of God, and then allow the concept of faith to ire them so deeply.
Truly, it is those who do not believe in God, yet get all aggressively riled up over someone else's doing so, who need to be getting "a life."
If you believe the Bible is OBVIOUSLY BS, be careful as this could belie some brainwashing (or stupidity) on your part.
A good lesson in argument is that saying "it's obvious" is never the best way of proving a point. In fact, it doesn't prove anything, saying so simply ASSUMES that what you are trying to prove is already proven.
On this note, DNA evidence could never PROVE whether Jesus rose from the dead or not. At some point, belief is required either way. You either BELIEVE he did or BELIEVE he didn't.
Also, do you really think that people preaching Jesus' ressurection were not considered crazy 2000 years ago? It's a radical idea that requires faith. It also requires not assuming that the physical world is all there is, which, again, is an ASSUMPTION that cannot be PROVEN (or DISPROVEN) by the senses and reason alone.
will cameron change your faith?
i'm a catholic ,but im not so much a religous person!but i have faith in the one called jesus !and i dont think something will change if he was risin from dead or not,if he had a child or not,if he had any affar will magdalene or not!
i was reading this article and to be honest nothing had surprised me!
this is all about science ,wich i have nothing against it!but my question is ,assuming that this is true that a dna test will show that cameron is right,will that change people beliefs!? i dont really think so!
we were born in different countries,different religions,different families..the only thing in common we have is that we have all our beliefs ,our faith in someone or something that we feel much bigger than us!!
does any one believe that if someone have faith or beliefs in something,another can destroys his beliefs??
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